The Minds and Lives of Animals with Joe Shute and Brandon Keim

Writer's Voice with Francesca Rheannon

In this episode of Writer’s Voice, host Francesca Rheannon sits down with Joe Shute and Brandon Keim for two conversations about:

• Animal intelligence and behavior
• The human-animal connection
• Ethical treatment of animals
• Rethinking human dominion over nature

Joe Shute discusses his latest book, Stowaway: The Disreputable Exploits of the Rat, which dives into the history, biology, and misunderstood nature of rats.

Brandon Keim shares insights from his book Meet the Neighbors: Animal Minds and Life in a More-Than-Human World, exploring animal intelligence, personhood, and our complex relationships with the non-human creatures with whom we share the planet.

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Key words: Joe Shute, Brandon Keim, Stowaway, Meet the Neighbors, animal intelligence, rats, animal personhood, wildlife, nature, environmental crisis, rats and humans, animal democracy, Fiona Presley, rat behavior, Writer’s Voice podcast, Francesca Rheannon.

Read The Transcript

Joe Shute Interview:

Topic

Joe Shute’s book, Stowaway, uncovers the surprising and often overlooked qualities of rats, including their empathy, intelligence, and importance in human history.

Key Points

• Why humans have historically feared and vilified rats.
• The role rats play as a “shadow species” following human migration.
• The surprising emotional and intellectual capabilities of rats, including empathy, cooperation, and even dancing to music.
• Joe’s personal experiences raising pet rats during the COVID-19 pandemic.
• How human conflicts and environmental changes have shaped rat populations globally.

Brandon Keim Interview:

Topic:

Brandon Keim’s book, Meet the Neighbors, explores the emerging science of animal intelligence and how understanding animal minds can reshape our relationships with the natural world.

Key Points:

• Fiona Presley’s story of adopting a wingless bumblebee, exploring the deep connections humans can form with insects.
• The concept of animal personhood and how animals, from bees to whales, display self-awareness, emotions, and social behaviors.
• How animals vote and make democratic decisions, such as swans honking to decide migration routes and wild dogs sneezing to choose directions.
• The implications of recognizing animals as persons in the context of the Anthropocene and the ongoing mass extinction crisis.