How Can Salesforce Admins Overcome Imposter Syndrome and Stress?

The Salesforce Admins Podcast

Today on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, guest host Josh Birk talks to Katie Villanueva, Golden Hoodie winner and Salesforce Administrator at 10K Advisors. Join us as we chat about her work with mental health advocacy and mindfulness principles that you can apply to your work as a Salesforce Admin.

You should subscribe for the full episode, but here are a few takeaways from our conversation with Katie Villanueva.

Mental health advocacy in the Salesforce ecosystem

Katie started out as an accidental admin, getting her degree in radio and television. These days, she works as a Salesforce Administrator for 10K Advisors, where she’s hard at work updating legacy code with flows and improving workflow processes.

Katie’s also the founder of the Mental Health and Illness Trailblazer Community Group. It’s a space in the ecosystem to make meaningful connections, share resources, and share stories. “We’re not alone in our struggles,” Katie says, and what’s important is to build that support network and talk about it.

Mindfulness principles for stress management and personal growth

Recently, Katie gave a talk at Midwest Dreamin’ entitled “Appreciate Your #AwesomeAdmin Self,” based on Jon Kabat-Zinn’s seven principles of mindfulness. The principles are a skill and something you have to practice, but they can help you overcome fear, doubt, imposter syndrome, burnout, stress, and negative self-talk.

The principles are:

1. Non-judgement
2. Patience
3. Beginner’s mindset
4. Trust
5. Non-striving
6. Acceptance
7. Letting go

In the talk, Katie gets into how you can apply those principles to your work as a Salesforce Admin.

As seen on the Dreamforce stage

At Dreamforce, Katie presented “Automate with AI: Prompt Builder, Flow, and Slack,” about the magic you can make when you get all three working together. If you missed out, she recently covered the same topics on How I Solved It with Jennifer Lee.

Katie has so many great insights to share, so be sure to listen to the full episode to learn more. And don’t forget to subscribe to the Salesforce Admins Podcast so you never miss an episode.

Podcast swag

• Salesforce Admins on the Trailhead Store

Learn more

• Trailblazer Group: Salesforce Mental Health + Illness Group (Virtual)
• How I Solved It: Harness the Power of AI, Flow, and Slack to Summarize and Notify Users

Admin Trailblazers Group

• Admin Trailblazers Community Group

Social

• Katie on LinkedIn
• Salesforce Admins on LinkedIn
• Salesforce Admins on X
• Mike on Threads
• Mike on Tiktok
• Mike on X

Full show transcript

Josh:
Hello, Admins! Guest host Josh Birk here, and today I’m going to bring you my guest, Katie Villanueva. You may have known Katie Villanueva from her recent Golden Hoodie Win. Also, Katie and I share a long history of mental health advocacy, and indeed, today we are going to talk about mental health and wellness tips for the workplace. Now a quick note due to the Gravity, well, which is Dreamforce. We actually recorded this shortly before Dreamforce, but it is not coming out until well after Dreamforce. So just kind of imagine when Katie’s talking about the session that she’s going to do at Dreamforce that she already did it. I attended it and it was wonderful. Now over to Katie. Alright, today on the show we welcome Katie Villanueva to talk about her work with mental health advocacy and some of her upcoming presentations. Katie, welcome to the show.

Katie:
Hi, thanks for having me.

Josh:
Alright, well let’s start with your early years. What did you go to school for?

Katie:
I went to school for radio. Television. Yeah. Well, no, actually a farmer. And then I graduated with radio, television, so I bounced around until I found my niche in the world, which is Salesforce being an admin.

Josh:
Okay. And what was your first involvement with Salesforce?

Katie:
I was an accidental admin, accidental on purpose admin. I wanted to do the job so they didn’t have anybody doing the job. So at a company that didn’t have a team or didn’t have any experience with Salesforce, you always have that one person who ends up being the accidental admin. I sought out that position and said, I want to do it.

Josh:
So you were kind of a voluntold admin, but you sort of voluntold yourself?

Katie:
Yeah, yeah. I had a lot of really good ideas and nobody was going to execute ’em the way that I wanted to execute them, so I just decided to steer the ship myself.

Josh:
A classic form of if you want a job done. Right. Got it.

Katie:
Yes. Love it.

Josh:
And how would you describe your current job?

Katie:
Oh, my current job, I am no longer steering ships. I am absorbing all the things about Salesforce. I went to, the first role that I had was at a smaller company, no integrations, we only use Sales Cloud. It was a great role to wrap my arms around Salesforce and what its core capabilities were. But I graduated into this role. Now I’m with 10 K advisors. They’re amazing, made up full of great people, and they have a really old org and it’s full of code, and they’re looking to update it with flows and retire those old workflow rules and put ’em into flows and clean up that old code and put it into something that now Salesforce is capable of doing that it wasn’t able to do eight years ago. So I’m learning a lot about Code and Flow and also just the mega massive org that it is. And I’m working with a team, so I’m also learning best practices and how to work with others and share the helm.

Josh:
Got it. Nice. Nice. Well, we’re focusing on mental health for the most part today and awareness. So tell me a little bit about the Trailblazer community that you started. Yeah,

Katie:
So I created the mental health and illness user group, and it is a space in the ecosystem where we can make meaningful connections and share resources and share stories and try to figure out this not only work-life balance and build up a support system around you, but understand that we’re not alone in the struggles that folks have that I think everybody has at one point or another in their lives, or folks that are dealing with mental illnesses such as myself, I have bipolar disorder and I get to meet other people with bipolar disorder, and we get to talk about how that affects us doing the job and how we get through that. So all kinds of, everybody’s got stuff going on and we weren’t talking about it that much prior to the group, openly, at least that I was aware of. And I started talking about it and folks gathered around and I went to Salesforce and said, Hey, I think there’s a community here that could use some support and can flourish. And they agreed and we created the user group. It’s a virtual user group, but at conferences we try to meet up and color Well, I mean, conferences are so exhausting.

Katie:
You get zapped or whatever the word you want to use, you get drained really easily over socialized, overstimulated. And some folks use it as a quiet time and put on some music and chill out. And then other folks just use it as icebreakers too, to meet some other people, conference goers, and then it’s very library vibes. It’s quiet, there’s small talk or there’s no talk. I love it.

Josh:
Which is sometimes exactly what people need. So that’s good. Yeah, no, I agree. And I feel like it’s actually Dreamforce and Trailhead DX have only gotten, I think is the way I’d put it. Being on the floor on Moscone can just be visually overstimulating even before you start lingering in sounds and social interactions and things like that. And I know it’s become even more important for me to remind myself that sometimes you just have to take a walk, get outside, enjoy that wonderful park that’s right next to Meko before things get a little haywire. Tell me a little bit about before you started grappling with your bipolar disorder and with stress and anxiety, what were some symptoms that you saw at work that were causing you pain?

Katie:
Oh man. I was a wreck. I think the first thing that comes to mind was probably the most impactful that had happened to me is that I had a manager just blow up at me on one day and say, I don’t know which version of you I’m going to get.

Katie:
Some days you come in here, you’re on top of it, you’re productive, you’re all over it. I don’t have to worry about anything. And then other days it’s like you don’t know what’s going on or you’re crying or you just aren’t thinking through some simple tasks, stuff like that. And he couldn’t depend on me, which broke my heart because I am a hard worker and I put so much of myself into my work because, and this was at the radio station, I loved the radio station. I found a direction at that time in my life and the fact that I was failing it and failing at what I’m capable of really just hurt me to my core. So that was an issue. And then a lot of times I cried a lot. I cried so much if my personal life was not steady, which at age 20, trying to figure life out, it’s not really one thing

Katie:
Yeah, yeah. You don’t have balance in your life. That was a trigger. And then some personal stuff, deaths in the family, stuff like that, just like anybody else would react to. But for me, when I had those triggers, it was exponential. I mean, here’s good example. Just recently my dog died and it was my soulmate dog, and I had a manic episode after she died. Yes, I was grieving, but I took that for the nth degree and abandoned my everyday life. And just because I was so obsessed about, I went to a manic episode about creating a photo album. I created three, I printed 400 pictures out of, I only had 200 out of my dog and I printed 400. I had triplets of the same picture, and I kept on printing them. And then I bought photo album after photo album after photo album because the photo albums weren’t good enough for the kind of book that I wanted to make. And then I spent time obsessing and I wasn’t doing my work. I wasn’t going to the gym. I was eating crappy food, I was also depressed. So I was drinking every night and I was just going through pictures, and I spent a ridiculous amount of money on this more than anybody really should when they want to put together a photo album for a dog that may have passed away.

Katie:
So when life gets imbalanced for me, it trickles into my work life. And unfortunately, that just means, I guess my manager said, I can be unpredictable or unreliable. It’s hard. It’s hard to hear because I know I can do a good job and I know I am a good worker and I know I produce good work.

Josh:
Yeah. Well, and we’ve talked about this back on the dev pod days, and it’s so important to be able to talk about it because first of all, I think in the tech industry, it’s really hard for people to admit that they might become unreliable for some reason because so much of our jobs, it is supposed to be show up. I was just at a user group meeting and they were joking about how they figured out that the best way to learn how to do flow was by failing at it five times. Right? It’s the same thing with coding. You’re going to break it three times to Sunday before you ever get anything work. But our outer image is like, oh, you need that code to get you to work. The train’s going to come on time, boss. You’re going to just kind of get it done. But if you don’t talk about it, you don’t normalize it. You don’t rationalize it. And then we realize so much that we’re not alone, that there are so many people out there dealing with depression, anxiety, chronic illnesses, or even just basic,

Katie:
I can’t be, there’s 10 million people with bipolar disorder. I cannot be the only person that this company who employs not 10 K, but I mean a company of however, a hundred, I worked for larger companies, national, global companies with a hundred thousand plus workers. I can’t be the only one with this. So how are you going to deal with this? How do we learn how to deal with this when it comes up? So yeah, you got to talk about it.

Josh:
Yeah. And I’m on the record on a different session than I did, basically saying to people, managers, I know you didn’t sign up to be somebody’s therapist, and we’re not asking you to be somebody’s therapist. That’s not your job. However, part of your job as a people manager is to recognize, acknowledge and work around mental health challenges because it will happen. It will happen to somebody who has, I don’t even know if normal brains exist in a post pandemic world, to be honest. When somebody loses a dog or a mom or a father or something like that, every now and then life is going to break you down a little bit and you’re not going to show up to work and be a hundred percent and maybe not showing up to work for a while is exactly what you need. And I will, as I always do, give a shout out to the wonderful people I’ve worked with at Salesforce who have been so supportive in things that I’ve done in the past and really helping prioritize mental health days and be able to take time off and the important things. So the self-care is very important to the employee, but it’s very important to have a safe space that management can help provide that as well.

Katie:
Yeah, agreed. I think, I don’t know, I got nothing. I feel like we hold so much back

Josh:
Because

Katie:
We’re spending so much energy trying to cover it up. When I let go of holding back and I got my medication and I found my balance and I went to therapy, all that energy that I had trying to hide, it turned into something really productive and my career skyrocketed.

Josh:
Yeah. Yeah. Nice. What are some things that you do on the day-to-day that kind of help you regulate your stress and monitor your stress?

Katie:
Definitely workout. Workout and eating. That is what I can keep in my control

Katie:
When I, I reduce my stress levels, which evens out my moods. And then I also, I get a boost of serotonin in my brain, which is pretty much a dose of happy medicine. Then you put that on top of the actual medicine. Then it keeps me my boat upright. Nice. I like it. Yeah. Eating. I try to eat healthy and I control how much I drink. Unfortunately, like I said, when my dog passed, I wasn’t monitoring those things and I spiraled and I felt like junk and alcohol’s a depressant. So when I was depressed, I, and I knew I was digging myself deeper in the hole. I didn’t have the energy to stop myself, but it was enough for warning signs for my loved ones to know, Hey, Katie doesn’t drink that much. And my husband said, if you’re sad, we can’t drink. He helped me. He was like, I’m not going to buy any alcohol this week.

Josh:
Nice.

Katie:
And it helped and it just broke the chain and we got alcohol back in the house. Again, not that I’m an alcoholic, but I couldn’t stop myself, but my support was able to see these signs that this is irregular, this is not everyday, Katie. So when I stopped going to the gym and when I stopped eating healthy, those were signs.

Josh:
I had somebody, actually, I think it was an article I was reading, and this is mostly about anxiety. So serotonin inhibitors, they work by forcing serotonin to go back to the front lines and keep working. And then she’s like, so it’s a very healthy thing because you’re basically just tricking your brain into doing what it was supposed to be doing in the first place. And then if you smoke marijuana, marijuana goes after the same receptors, it goes after the same serotonin receptors, so it doesn’t let this SSRIs do their job. And so she’s like, now think if your house is on fire, right? Serotonin is like a sprinkler system in your house goes off, fire is down, your house is fine. Marijuana is kind of like you call the fire department even though it’s just a kitchen fire. So now the fire is out, but your entire house is drenched and you have all this property damage.

Josh:
And then she’s like, alcohol is like you have your house on fire and you call in the military and send in a tank to blow up your house. That’s how much more powerful alcohol is taking the attention away from what your brain is supposed to be doing. Alright, well let’s shift gears here a little bit. Move into kind of positive vibe mode. And I want to talk about the talk that you did at Midwest streaming, which is appreciating your awesomeness as an admin. And the first thing I want to ask you, because you kind of set up the session is like, this is about you. This is about a person, but you bring up somebody, John Cabot, Z, and I don’t know if I’m saying that right, but who is John Cabot Zi and how did he impact your session?

Katie:
Oh my gosh. Actually, I have a funny full circle story about him. So I’ll just start with, so the session is based off of the seven principles of mindfulness, which he is known to have created or at least put pen to paper and say, these are the seven principles. I’m sure they existed prior before that, but he popularized the principles. So the principles are widely accepted around the world for its impact on stress. It will, and this is what I tell the folks that come to my session. It’ll help you overcome fear and doubt and imposter syndrome and burnout and stress and negative. The principles are a skill and it’s something you have to practice. But if you practice, you will be able to manage your stress. And sometimes I even catch myself thinking, oh, I am not applying a principal right now. But the principles themselves are non-judgment. So I relate that to folks. I say, are you comparing yourself to others? Because that means you’re passing judgment on yourself.

Josh:
Yes.

Katie:
Which everybody does at one point or the other. And then the second question is, are you patient with yourself? We all want to learn everything right now, especially the new stuff that comes out. I remember when AI came out and people were experts the next day, they’re self proclaiming experts.

Josh:
That is a very important addition to that phrase because I assure you, as somebody who jumped on that bandwagon and had to do a lot of reading, unless you were already an AI researcher, nobody was an expert when this certain bandwagon started rolling up.

Katie:
Yeah. Yep. Exactly. So the second one is be patient and give yourself time and space to learn. The third question that he cited was having a beginner’s mindset. So are you being open to learning new things, which is so important. I mean, you can’t be in this profession without it. And if you don’t have it, you probably aren’t very good at your job. And I’d say that sounds harsh, but what I’m saying is having a beginner’s mindset is being open to new things. We always have new releases. It’s being open to new solutions. If you come to a table and think that you already have the fix and you haven’t heard other ideas or other things that may snag it up in the process, then you’re being very closed-minded and may not have the best solution. And then being open to learn, like I said. And so it’s having a beginner’s mindset. And I say this in the session and it’s my favorite line in the entire session is having a beginner’s mindset is the thing that prevents you from getting stuck. It allows you to grow.

Josh:
Yeah, yeah. Well, and as you’re saying, it’s very important in our culture and Salesforce culture because we do stuff changes so quickly. Three releases a year, new features, new products. The joke that I’ve been putting on the road these days is at one point you could actually learn the whole platform. You could learn almost everything about being an admin. You could learn almost everything about being a developer. And it wasn’t, wasn’t a mind killer. And now it’s practically impossible because even within just the Salesforce platform itself, there’s so many moving gears, but then you add in MuleSoft and Tableau and Slack and they have their own releases and they’re constantly updating stuff. But I think it even goes farther than that. It goes exactly what you’re talking about with your new job. If you don’t assume that there might be a better thing on the table now than when you made the thing three years ago, you might be missing out. And I always told my developer teams, don’t rely on the code you wrote last year because chances are somebody at Salesforce fix that 15 lying piece of code that you wrote just to get that one thing to work. It’s probably one line of code now, and if you don’t go researching it, you won’t find that out.

Katie:
Yeah. I mean, I don’t mean to be so harsh, but it’s so important in this line of business is to open yourself to all the things available and to all the possibilities and all the ideas and all the learning, and that’s what keeps us moving forward. But going back to the principles, the fourth principle of mindfulness is trust. So I feel like a lot of us don’t trust ourselves. We’re not confident in questioning or even I gave them an example of saying no to somebody, especially maybe somebody in a leadership position. But sometimes we don’t do that because we’re afraid we’re going to make a mistake. But I remind folks that mistakes are okay. It’s not failure, it’s just learning in action, but still trust your gut. So that’s the fourth principle. The fifth principle is non-striving. And people are like, what? Non-striving, you mean don’t cry? No, what I mean is that if you’re always breaching and striving for the next thing, how can you be happy with what you did accomplish? And I say the example of how often do you see somebody work really hard for a certification and they post on LinkedIn that they got it, they’re certified now, but before the end of the post, they’re already onto that next one.

Katie:
And so they’re not in the moment and they’re not supporting themselves and they’re not appreciating their accomplishments. So a non-striving is definitely appreciate how your accomplishments make you feel and tap into that. The sixth principle is acceptance. And that’s another what I get from people. The acceptance is see things as they are. But I quickly follow that up as that does not mean keep things as they are. I mean, how many of us are in a situation with either rose colored glasses and something is so great, whether it be a work experience or a job or maybe a skillset that you think you have spot on and you really don’t. Or maybe you’re in a situation that’s really negative, but maybe it’s not so negative because you’re not being open to what’s coming at you and you are not really benefiting from it. You just are so against it. So the sixth question really challenges people to open their minds and their hearts to the situations they’re in. Because I say and what Mr. John says, he says, if you can see a situation for what it truly is, that’s what helps you decide to change it.

Katie:
And that’s what gets you organized and motivated to take on the next challenge. And I tell folks, I said, you have to appreciate that you have the power to change what you see.

Josh:
Nice.

Katie:
Yeah, it’s really cool because sometimes we feel like we don’t have that power. It is like we don’t have the power to grow. We don’t have the power to learn will take us forever to get to where we want to go. We can’t say no to somebody that is all inside you. We have that. We just have to recognize it. And then the seventh principle is the hardest one, but the simplest. And that is to let go, just let go. This is where we’re at, this is what we’re learning. This is the situation I’m in and I’m going to change it, but it’s going to take time. And I’m working towards those goals and just let go of that stress

Katie:
I just fixating on what isn’t really isn’t healthy.

Josh:
So I love all of that. And the two things that come to mind, first of all is there are so many things that you’re describing that are so similar to how cognitive behavioral therapy works, which CBT is a lot about reframing and asking questions. Do you have evidence for this thought that you’re having? And if you don’t have evidence to it, does that mean it’s an irrational thought or a rational thought? And it’s like investigating the emotions that we jump to before we actually try to make change. So there you’ve got acceptance there, you have patience. The other thing I love about it is how they kind of play with each other a little bit. You have to give yourself patience to not know something, but also open a beginner’s mindset to go learn something new. So it sounds like it’s a very good lesson in balance. It’s not just all our favorite statement and no insult to yoga people because yoga is wonderful, but when people are like, oh, you’re having a bad mental health day, why don’t you just go do yoga? It’s just not that simple people. It just doesn’t work that way. How do you find yourself dealing with, when does this introduce into your daily life? Do you find yourself in a situation and then you take a step back and be like, oh, I should leverage this principal at this point?

Katie:
Oh, for sure not. Yeah. And I’ll be honest, I was introduced to this when I was going through yoga teacher training. It’s not the seven principles of mindfulness, it’s the eight branches of yoga, and it’s very similar and it’s theories of mostly being letting go, not being possessive of things and so on and so forth. So that’s what got me to looking for something that I can bring to the Salesforce community along those lines. And I stumbled upon these. So when I wrote this up, I was like, I need this. And every time I give this session, it’s like a love letter to myself from my past self. It is just a reminder that I am imperfect. It’s a reminder that I am on a journey and to be patient. And so when I get mean at my job at 10 K, I’m still in my first year. Everybody there. I don’t know if you know this is a hall of Famer or an MVP. Oh, I know that. No. Oh gosh. It’s really intimidating. And I’ve only been in the ecosystem for four years. I’ve the least amount of experience and everybody on the Team.

Katie:
I get really insecure about that. But you know, it’s where I’m at.

Katie:
Yeah, it’s where I’m at and I’m learning and I’m growing. So when I get upset about work stuff, I do think about these principles or I’m prepping for Dreamforce and I’m really excited to give my presentation, but I’m like, am I going to get it done in time? Am I going to remember all the words? Am I going to get tongue tied? And I just take a step back when I get really upset or really wrapped up into something, something that’s stressing me out that I’m trying to be productive on. That’s when the principles come to me. And then I take a step back and I think through them and I’m like, how am I applying this? What is the one that’s stressing me out the most? And so it’s taking that step back and it definitely calms me down a lot.

Josh:
Got it. So kind of preparing your mind to go prepare yourself to go do something.

Katie:
Yeah. Yeah.

Josh:
Nice. What are some of the things that you’re going to be doing at Dreamforce?

Katie:
Oh, I will be giving my first technical session about automating with ai. I’ll be reviewing Prompt Builder flow and Slack and what happens when you combine them all and what kind of magic comes out of that?

Josh:
Nice.

Katie:
I’m really excited about it. I keep on making a joke. I was like, I’ve talked about my feelings a lot. I am ready to talk.

Josh:
Yeah, I hear you. I hear you. I’m trying to teach my status as the guy who really bums people out. Oh, she’s going to talk about something dark again.

Katie:
I just say I’m an admin. I want to show people that I do admin stuff too. Nice. I love it. But oh, speaking of which, I did say that I called it John Kebas. You called it his name different, I don’t know, I should probably look that up exactly. But I said it was a full circle thing because when I went to my first community conference, I went to my first Salesforce tower in Atlanta and I was really excited and they had all these books on the shelves and they said, we can grab one. And I grabbed Barack Obama’s book, I grabbed his book, and it’s a book on mindfulness.

Josh:
Nice.

Katie:
I didn’t realize that when I wrote this session last year, I didn’t realize that I had grabbed that book two years prior because I never read it because it’s not a graphic novel, but I’ll get to it when I put my comic books down, I will get to it. But I just thought it was weird. I was like, this guy has been in my life before and now I’m talking about him. That’s

Josh:
Nice. That’s nice. Are there any mental health and illness events coming up soon?

Katie:
Well, let’s see. We’re still trying to figure out what we’re going to do for Dreamforce. We do want to color, unfortunately, it will not be in the community networking area, but they do have coloring posters though. So I still suggest people go and decompress with their coloring posters. But we are looking at maybe having a nonprofit event where we raised money for a charity by coloring.

Josh:
Oh, nice.

Katie:
Teaming up with Green Power, who’s interested in giving back to the community. And they reached out to me and loved the coloring event, and I was like, I’m looking for somewhere to host, so someone to host. So doing that. And then also October 10th is World Mental Health Day,

Katie:
And I saw a speaker at Dreaming in Color this year. She was speaking about mindfulness, and her name’s Nick e Thomas, and she’s not part of the ecosystem. She actually was a radio DJ who went rogue and wanted to do more mindful and self-care talks and helping people find their purpose and balance and center. And it was a wonderful session. So I invited her to come for World Mental Health Day and teach us a little bit about self-care. We’re going to do a little bit of meditation, a little bit of chair yoga, and then just learn about centering ourselves a lot. Like these principles next tell us to do so. Yeah, we got

Josh:
That’s awesome. And that’s a virtual event. I love the Rogue DJ who went out to try to help the world. That’s a movie I would watch. I’d watch that.

Katie:
Yeah, she’s awesome. I’m really happy that I stumbled upon her.

Josh:
Nice. Alright, well one final question. Do you have a favorite comfort food?

Katie:
97% dark chocolate.

Josh:
Oh wow. That’s a good one.

Katie:
I like it. Dark and bitter,

Josh:
Not a lot of

Katie:
Sugar. And it’s

Josh:
Creamy. Nice, nice. I like it a lot. I like it a lot. I always go back to meatloaf. I think it’s because my mom used to make meatloaf. I think it’s a mom

Katie:
That’s on the whole other spectrum for me. No way. Although my husband introduced me to smoked meat loafs and that’s actually really good. So if it’s smoked, I’ll eat it.

Josh:
And this is the thing I have learned since cooking meatloaf. There are a lot of different ways to do it. So yeah, wrap them in bacon sometimes works really well.

Katie:
Oh wow.

Josh:
Alrighty, Katie. Well thank you so much for the great conversation information. That was a lot of fun.

Katie:
Thanks. Thanks for having me.

Josh:
I want to thank Katie for the great conversation and information. And as always, I want to thank you for listening. Now, if you want to learn more about this show, head on over to admin.salesforce.com or go to your podcast client of choice. And of course, as always, join us over on admin.salesforce.com to learn more about being an admin. Thanks again everybody. I’ll talk to you soon.

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