Blue Planet Show- Talking Story with the Oahu Crew: Daniel, Jeff, Jason and Jed

The Blue Planet Show

Video voiceover of some recent wing foil drone footage by our local crew of wing foilers: Jason, Daniel, Jeff, Jed and Robert. The drone footage is from three different wing foil surfing sessions in May and June 2021 here on Oahu. This show is also available as a audio only podcast, just search for "Blue Planet Show" in your favorite podcast app, this one is Season 1, Episode #11

Show transcript:

Okay, welcome guys. I'm trying something new here on the blue planet show. We're going to play a video that this is video. I shot over the last couple of weeks with the drawn of my friends here on a wahoo, and we're going to watch it together and moderate it, or, do a little voiceover, talk about what's going on and try to give you some pointers and, beginner tips, more advanced tips, any kind of equipment tips we have.

And then the conditions are pretty similar and all that is three different days, but the conditions are always like between, I would say between 10 to 20 knots about, it's pretty some lighter moments probably, but pretty decent win on those days. I'm gonna introduce myself first and then we'll go around everybody.

Just introduce yourself. So my name is Robert Stellick and one thing I love about wing foiling is this the community like people are so welcoming and friendly. I love that. Hi, my name's Jason. One thing I love about wind foiling is having that freedom and not being able to paddle back to the lineup.

So that's one thing I enjoy. Hi, my name is Daniel calling today. One thing I like about when foiling is I'm sharing it with a bunch of friends, all in the water and running away from the crowd and keep, we keep pushing each other every single day.

Yeah. Two things I love about waiting for them. So I like going in and out of the surf riding waves. And then I also like trying new things and. That's what I like about our group is everyone's always trying new tricks and things and makes it interesting. So those are the two things I like. Nice Jed, Aloha.

I am Jed. And what I love about winning foiling is zipping around when the prone for alert or prone surfers are just sitting there waiting for waves. When we can actually see the waves and just stay on foil the whole time. It's just the best feeling. Yeah, it is an awesome January.

So now, okay. So this is the first day out of three sessions that I was filming with the drawn. And I'm going to start with Daniel. Who's writing right here.

Can you tell us what gear are you using first? Right now I'm using a four, four. Magic foil board from Glen Pang who shaves platonic country. And I'm on a 72 centimeter mass Armstrong where the 10 50 front wing and a flat tail wing in the back with a 50 fuse and zipper, shim and Armstrong, a foil Abe before a wing four or five wing, right?

Four or five. Yeah, 4.5. And this is one of your signature moves at the bet going back winded. Yeah, sometimes I been practicing it too. Like going back winning, like even when the wave is like breaking or steep, just to cooking like faster. To just to get in even in the pocket, like really quick.

It seems like it's also a good way sometimes to turnaround without getting like sometimes when you drive, it's easy to get back winded. If the wind is light. Yeah. Then by pulling in you're by shooting in the wing, you don't get that back winded. Yeah. So

Off and on little bits, little small, but

good practice. Jump board is actually a 36 Dieter board. So it's small. It's almost like my prom board, maybe just a tad bit, little more volume, like two inches, two, two more liters of volume. Okay. So it's not your prom board for prime surfing, use a different board. I use a 33 liter board.

How do you like that? When Daniel at? I like it. It's really powerful. Like I tried ozone ANSYS. What else did I try a wing ride, but I really like this and the handles is rigid and I felt that was important, like before anybody came out with rigid handles. And as I talked to Robert recently, like Robert says that he likes his handles rigid also.

So I think a lot of the company's been coming out with these rigid handles. And I like it cause it's like it's super strong and then there's two different bladders two pumps. So the. The boom. And then the leading edge,

I have the Cabrina acts two and those handles are a little bit floppy. Some people don't mind it, but I don't prefer that. I actually prefer the boom. So I started on the echo and and now I've got one of the slicks, which are pretty nice. Nice. Jeff you, that was just you on the video, but you just got the new echo on the new Ansis V2, or then the new newest model. Yeah. So I was writing the original ANSYS wing and then I recently a couple of days ago, I got the new score wing. So the, we put it on top of each other and they look exactly the same. So we didn't think there's going to be much difference, but there is quite a bit of different.

So it feels. Yeah, although it's heavier, like a few answers heavier because of the windows, it's actually has a lighter feel. So when you're lifted off the water, when you're water starting it pops off the water instantly, and then it feels tighter in your hands. Everything is similar to the F1 where they tightened everything up.

It feels more responsive and more lively. And especially when you're riding the wave, when you go to Lafitte in the back, it just, you just throw it back there. And instead he just is in perfect position, like the first instance in a lot of the other wings you have to, when you throw it back there, you have to adjust it.

Sometimes it wants to do the front legs, but this one, you throw it back in it's level. Perfect. And it's pretty much effortless. So it's a big improvement. Over the other one, I think. And so he basically tightened up the leech and then he flattened the profile. So it's faster through the air, those are the two changes you mean?

And then the Leo is on that dark wing yet. It looks, I get that one has so much vianet like it just looks, it looks strange to me that, that dark wing, but I think good part of it is this kind of has a pointy tip too, right? Yeah. I think the design of that was not really intended for wages more for jumping and tricks and back loops in front loops and that kind of thing.

And getting here is when you put it on a wave, it wiggles a little bit. That's what the Leo said too, that it it's really good for jumping and then. Ears Corey both Corey and Jason. You are both on the, on a wings too. And Jason, you've been through a lot of different wings. You've tried a lot of different wings.

So what do you like about the Armstrong that over the other ones you've tried? I think my favorite thing about the Armstrong is the power that you get and how stiff it is. That day, I believe I was using a five, five, and Cody was on a four or five, eight week. And yeah, also like it for jumping as well, too, and it parts really well when you're actually on the wave and the wingtips are shorter, so it doesn't touch the, like the water surface as much.

Even with the five, five I don't really have that much problems actually touching the water surface. So that's the reason why I like that rain and. It's it's, so beef felt like the materials and everything that they put into it. That's probably like one of the best ones that I prep for me for my preference.

I like it. Yeah. I tried it too. And what I found that, those, the thing the wingtips are really thick. And even if you do touch down with it, it just seems like they just released really easily. Yeah. It just feels like it just ricochets off the water, which, you know, like calling me and I actually found out but it's a little heavy, but one thing that I do like about it as well too, is the windows.

Like most brands you get out there and they don't, you're not able to fold the windows or creases where this one, you can actually fold it, which actually like my wife and I, as soon as we're done, we're just crinkle it up and just throw in the bag and, not. Having a tear and, rip this kinda on what we're looking forward to.

Cause we're not like, as you see, it's like my wing hanging on the hook over here. I know Jeff is looking at it or probably is they'll do that. But yeah, that's something I like about the Archstone stuff. It's built that a lot of thought into it.

And so you were on a five, five and Daniel was on a four or five. So there's quite a bit of difference in power, right? Between the four or five and the five five, or would you say? Yeah. I think I used a five-pack business kind of like holiday clinic umbrellas. You don't like, I've been getting inspired by you.

Jeff and Daniel of course was the leader in the jumping category right now. But I found like this one kind of locks you down, like umbrellas you down a lot more. So it makes it easier on the knees. So that's why I like having a bigger pile and then also like getting the speed and kind of powers you up really nice.

It's easier to get going out when the wind's a little bit light. Yeah. Yeah. Cause I fall a lot, so I want something to get me up easy too, because I'm used to such a small board, like Daniel, I'm using a four, four, and it's 22 wide and it's like 45 liters and I'm on a Armstrong, 1250 and it's modified.

I lost a little bit with not too much forward, but I've been experimenting with my wings as well, too, but awesome. How did you modify the 1250. So what I did was at con I had a belt sander, and I shaved off the wing tips. I felt like it was biting too much.

Like it was tracking lot. Cause I like to actually I want more of that prone feeling like when you're out in the surf. So I wanted something that actually would release like more from left to right when I'm doing like turns I wanted that real juicy feeding. And I felt cutting the wing tips down and I got a flying detail from Jeff, which actually I just love, nothing is just unreal.

So that was Corey Jason's wife. We just did a jump. That was nice job. Nice car. So jumping pretty high nowadays, so worry is too shy to be on the camera. So she's like just listening, huh? Then I feel like I got a good combination, with me kinda modifying the wind. I got it to where did you, how did you modify the tailing?

So I actually I took off the Wingnuts. I felt like that was tracking a lot, so I took off the Wingnuts and it made it more lively, more, it feels like it gets more responsive. What about you, Danielle were telling, are you using on your arm chunk? Set up I'm using the retail also the flying V with the.

Tips on there. So just like stock and I feel it works really good, but I also use this modified towing. It's a 12 inch flat towing and it feels real like loose and real like surfy feeling. So I kinda like that. That's the one that Nico made you the totally flat. Yeah. So my Nico made down. Yeah.

And it's really surfy can turn pretty much on a dime, but you need to really control it. Cause it, it can slide out because it's small and flat, but it's really Carvey. What do you think does your, I think you said, but what length is your fuselage? My fuse is a 50 fuse and I'm using the 72 Centimeter mass, which is the 20, but using the same set up for wing foiling and for profiling and for pro.

And that's pretty much all I use is this the whole same setup for winging and proning, and that's my favorite setup, like all around. Oh yeah. This is Derek. People always ask about that. Like he has this long leash line attached to, into his wing and this kind of lets it out and flies away above, which is pretty cool.

But yeah, he couldn't make it ease at home Depot, but but yeah. Derek always comes up with cool new stuff and try not things and being creative, but that's probably the reason why he's probably at home Depot is probably trying to figure out something. Maybe I think he might actually be working cause he's like winging all day long.

So he has to work at night, get some work. But Jeff talk a little bit about your board and I know you're like you went from a big board to a smaller board and then back up to slightly more volume again, right? Yeah. In the learning, we went all the way from down to, from bigger boards. Like I think we started out 80 9,000 and then I went down to a 55 and I rode that for six or eight months.

And then it's accustomed Jimmy Lewis. So it's four, six 2255. And then. Winter came and we're up at sailing, the North shore, where the waves are really big and fast and the wind is fluky. So you have to start really quickly. A lot of times before the sets coming in, that little board was sometimes hard to start right away.

So I had Jimmy make me a, another bigger one 65 liters. So it's four, 10 23 and a half 65. And now once it feels really comfortable, it starts really quick. And it, I don't really feel the performance has gone down at all from the 55 liter board. But the starting in, when you need to start is really critical.

If I, if the wind dies, I still sink all the way up to my thighs. But as long as there's a little wind, you can keep going. And it's a lot more comfortable than that little board. So I'm pretty happy with that one now. Yeah. I definitely like having a boy that keeps keeps me more at the surface of the water instead of sinking weight, starting way underwater.

But Jason and Daniel, you both ride really small boards. So what's the reason? What, why, why do you take that compromise and just deal with the starting and light when sometimes and yeah, just why do you use the tiny boards? I been changing it up, so I bring two Wars now I bring my 36 neater board, the smaller like prom board for stronger winds and.

I look at, I assess the conditions when I get there. And if it's spotty like off and on, then I'll pull out my bigger port, which is a 54 liter board. And the reason being like, if there's waves, I'd rather be on my smaller board because it's more surfy compared to the bigger boys, like a big long board, but learning five liters for most people is still pretty small, but yeah, it is, it feels very yeah, it just feels like a tank, but if you look at the good guys around the world ridiculous, like balls smaller and his partner he always brings with it. There's a bunch of guys, but when they practice in the lakes, they're not using small prone boards, they're using ticker boards.

And the reason being is because when you do the tricks at those bigger boards, instead of landing, when you land, you won't sink, you can stay up on the water and still go, especially on the lighter wind conditions. So I've been just figuring it out and assessing the conditions, see what the wind is doing.

If it's strong and there's waves. Then I'll, I'll pull out my small board and go for jumps and surf the waves and practice, whatever tricks I've been practicing. And then my bigger board, like I'll go on the lighter wind days and practice everything that I do with my small board on the stronger wind days.

But just through my bigger board. Yeah. Makes sense. Yeah I reached just recently started pulling off the flock as, and I think in that move, especially cause you landed flat and you stop and then you restart. That's where I think having a higher volume board really helps a lot.

I think keep keeps you on the water, keep you from sinking. It's more likely that you'll pull it off, pull out of it, and you can use a smaller wing, too many, have a bigger board. And so when you're trying to it's easier with that small wing to try and flip it around. Yeah, Robert died like the last few days we've been trying to take out the tiny wings, the wings light.

Cause it's easy to just flip the wing all the way around. If it's smaller, it's a lot easier to try to pull off those kind of tricks. Yeah. Having a smaller wing. I always try to use the smallest swing I can because just cause it's so much easier to handle and stuff like that. And I think I'd almost rather have a smaller wing than a smaller board, but I guess it depends having a small, lightweight board is nice too, especially for jumping and spinning and that kind of stuff.

It's nice to have a smaller board and turning on the wave carving. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I think Daniel hit it right on the money when it comes to assessing the conditions myself too. I'm the same way. When, if the winds are like cranking, then I'll bring out a smaller board.

But one thing I made sure, like all my boards actually have inserts so that I don't go out with without my strap. So every board actually has straps now. And then of course, when it's lighter than I'll bring up my 45 meter board and my prone board is only like 34 and a half. And that's the only thing now too, is when I go out, I make sure I have the right when of course I, when I bring all my small Chrome board I tend to use my bigger wings just so that I can get a bottle of water quicker.

And then when I ride my lighter or my bigger board, then I'll bring in a smaller rain. Like you folks, you try to get the smallest swing because when you're trying to do all these tricks, you want less materials and weight. So yeah, I totally agree with. Martin maneuverability, everybody's saying the smallest marrying and assessing the conditions for sure.

Yeah. Hey, Robert, I made for the mere mortals here. This is a jet Dietrich. I'm actually from Buffalo, New York. So I was out in Hawaii with you just to give them some background. And you've got some video of me later in the show here. I appreciate you having me on, but I'm like a hundred kilograms, about 220 pounds, six foot five.

And I come from a wind surfing background and then coding and then code foiling, kite surfing. And I think if you don't live in Hawaii having a bigger board and having more stability can lead to foiling more and really having more fun. So again, I don't, I respect everything that you guys said and your skillset but your physical bodies are different than my size.

And I know you're a big guy Roberts I think some people might be watching this saying, I can't see myself ever on a 45 or 55 liter board. I think the enjoyment of getting up on the foil and then. Surfing through smaller waves with a bigger board can still be just as much fun for folks that just aren't on the same level as you guys, and you guys are all on such a high level that it's, it's amazingly impressive, but I think for the standard folks out there who are just getting into foiling, I think the bigger boards with more stability, more width, a bigger front wing help a lot.

A hundred percent agree, judge. Yeah. And by the way, thanks for joining us from the East coast. I think it's 3:00 AM for you. And it's 9:00 PM for us in Hawaii. So we're just a little bit after dinner and you had to wake up in the middle of the night to join us. So appreciate that. I appreciate you bringing me in on it.

I was in Hawaii for two weeks just a couple of days ago and I met you obviously, and I got one of your Carver foil boards, 114 liters. And I was using that. I brought my hand wings and I'm on an Armstrong set up. I've got a 2,400 front wing and a 300 back wing, 72 centimeter mass.

So I've got the big guy set up and I think that. The criticism of that setup is it's not as tourney. You can't make maneuvers. It's not as loose, but frankly for someone my size and at my skill level I'm having a great time. So I know I can go down like you guys to smaller things like the two 32 HS, which I have, and I've got an 1850 HS, a front wing again, Armstrong stuff, and those are great.

But if it's 10 to 20 or 10 to 15 and I can't get on foil, I just think about Rob our Greg Knoll and riding giants, man, if you can't catch the wave, it means nothing. So if you can't get on foil, you're not having fun. So I go with the bigger gear and maybe I can't turn as much. My skill level continues to go up with the experience, getting the mileage on the water, and then I'll go down to smaller stuff.

Just the way you guys have gone. Even from a hundred liters down to 55 liters. Yeah. And yeah, it's starting on a big wing. Totally makes sense. A big foil because it just allows you to start in lighter winds. You'd need less speed to get it going. And then also in a jive or in a transition, you just have way more time.

Because even if we slowed down a little bit, you can still recover. So pull out of it with the big foil. Yeah. And then I would definitely say like when you're starting out, don't want to start on a small foil or small, thin foil that's definitely something you want to leave for later a little bit better.

What I find interesting too, just wanted to mention is for us here on a wall, it seems like all, almost all of us in this crew. I think maybe except for Jeff, we always keep our feet in the same stance we got, we all have foot straps. You have pretty small boards. When I see videos of other places, people either don't have foot straps or they have three foot straps and they always switch feet and they have bigger boys, wider boards.

And then they all always have bottom handles, which we don't, none of us has the handle on the bottom really. Like things like that. It's interesting how, yeah. As it's like different people see different things as important or not important, just from what everybody else is using around them.

I think so that, how is it in Buffalo? What kind of equipment are people using on the Lake there? As I mentioned before we started, we actually have a pretty good spot for kite surfing, wind surfing, because Buffalo is connected to Lake Erie and about 20 miles South of Lake Ontario.

And we can go, I've got about 40 different venues within. Between 45 minutes and an hour near my office, I'm actually lawyer in Buffalo. I can get to a spot about 20 minutes away. So today actually went there about 20 minutes away from my office that worked until about two and there wasn't any wind.

And there was a little thermal that came in on the Niagara river. And in that scenario, when you're looking at eight miles an hour or two 15 or 16, I do not want to be slogging around. And like a 90 meter board, I've got a 90 liter, six, four starboard twenty-five inch hyper foil board, which just makes life so much harder for me.

So what I prefer actually is the Jimmy Lewis it's 114 liters. It's a flying B, which is a really nice board. It's, it will flog for me, decently. And again, I'm speaking Windsor for language, but I think that's the language that goes with the wing foiling, because the crossover with the the muscle memory from the wind surfing is just, I've been wind surfing like 15 years.

I, I wouldn't surf, but I started one surfing about 10 years old for in about 1980, 79. And then I call you in about Oh six and for 15 years or whatever, 12 years. And then this past year I switched over. And the comparison between closing the gap with a wing foil A sail and a wind surfer. I think it's just so similar.

I'm probably speaking language that any of the one surfers, any of these guys here for windsurfers and that's the way it goes. So in Buffalo, the gear is a little bit bigger, although we've got some pretty, pretty avid people. I got a good friend of mine who goes down to Jupiter, Florida, and he gets it probably 50 or 60 days in the ocean, down in Florida.

So he is going towards smaller gear and the waves are bigger. There, we get more Flatwater I'm working on a four-lane tax and things like that, just because we don't have as much wave action. So that's why when I was in Hawaii is such a great time. So Danny, you want to tell the story that you told earlier about that?

What happened at that spot today? Oh, so it was it was like four or five of us out. And so we're winging and we're going in and out for an hour or so. And then we come to the inside reef where we jive or tack to go back out and we turn right by the grief. And our friend, Todd Bradley says, diode has a big shark.

And I was like, what? He was like, yeah, it's eight feet just went on the road. And I'm like on my little prom board. And I'm like, Oh my God should I just leave and go in cause I'm on the inside already. Like just dig out. But I seen there was like four more people out there and one of them was like, Jason's wife, Cody.

And there was like, Nani is girl naughty. And then there's this other kid Ghana. And as a young kid, so I just the screaming at everybody as a shark. And so first thing, Cody is gone and then I told Naya and she was gone. And then the other kid was like, what? Really? Really? And I was like, we're out of here.

And he was like, okay, let's go ahead. So we all dug out and went in, but we got to shore and then some other guys just pumping up and then we told them and some of them, a couple of them went out like kid count and went back out. And one of the guys in this video, like Lindale, he was like, ah, I'm just gonna leave it.

But. Leave it for the locals to have their lunch out there. And I was like, Oh, okay. And so Todd said the shark was huge, like eight feet tiger going underneath. And so that's where we fall is like right inside there all the time, because that light yeah. Like checking out the foils too. They think it might be a, yeah, I'm not sure it's scary.

And I got a big gash on my foot from the floor wasn't because of me like, like a lot of blood, but I don't think so. It's pretty nuts. Yeah. Pretty crazy. I wish I had a bigger board. I could stay on the board, but like again, like when Jared was talking about his 90 liter board and whatnot, I think for like guys that do it in the Lake, their boys need to be thicker than the guys here, like in Hawaii.

Because again, I think the saltwater and freshwater is different. Like when I used to go surfing in California, I took my regular board from Hawaii up and I'm like, Oh my God, I can't even surf. I can't even stand on this board. It's sinking. So you, with the California water, mainland water, you sink a lot.

Whereas like here in Hawaii, we can go with the less, that small leaderboard. So everybody in the world that chip, like, how do you as ride that thing? You know this because our water, like the salt water, it has more flotation. Yeah. That's the thing. And I don't think people would understand that until you come here, you can feel it right.

Jet. Oh, yeah, I just, I, Kahala is a great spot. I've been watching your videos Robert for again last eight months or so. Cause when I started, I got a link foil set up about eight months ago and I just went all in and lock, watching these videos and I see the third column and I emailed you and said, where are you at?

So when I first got to wide a couple of weeks ago, when I showed up, I think I met Daniel the first day and he was super friendly, total low hobble hallway gave me a cell phone number and these texts me every morning okay, we're going to go out. You got a great spot and then the one that you said we were going over to to diamond head and that's actually where I think I'm in some of this video around 33 minutes.

And that was just a great experience over time and had that nice wind over there and good waves. Yeah. And that here's non-issue she was also out at Diamond had with you guys, but I'm pretty impressed by nanny. I guess she could kite surf before she started waiting for them, but Daniel, you helped her to teach her right wing foiling.

I did from boiling to whinging and she pretty much learned to wing for on a pretty small board. She never really started on a big board, right? No, he hated the big boards and so like she had a small Armstrong board that she bought from a friend and I let her use one of my wings, which is a four meter also.

And surprisingly, that will never, Paul never had bladder issues. It's pretty solid, but she's been using that and she pretty much, it's taken off like we got a, like a good group of girls at Kahala. That's pretty much ripping Nani and Cody, and then talk these coming over from Kyla now and she's ripping.

That's the three girls that's just going to be pushing each other. I don't see any other girls on this Island as good as probably Cody and talk these coming up and Nani is just, she finally got footsteps today Oh yeah. So you know how she does with the jumping, but yeah.

They're going yeah. And something I for, yeah, something I wanted to just mention to women too. Sometimes women think that you need a lot of upper body strength and whatever that they're disadvantaged, but it's really more about Finessin. And I think a lot of times, if anything, women are probably more, more balanced and coordinated than guys in a lot of ways, it's like for her to be able to do this already after only two months or whatever is pretty impressive.

Yeah. Yeah, totally agree. I got to say watching, like the ones who get really good, the ones who want it, they put the time on, in the water and there's not one hour and then go in, they're all out there. Like Cody, I watch her and she's out there like three, four hours and probably more than anybody else.

I know. She'll probably do two hours go in and her and Jason we'll have launch in and drink and rest and then go right back out. That's the only way you get better as the more time you put in it. Unfortunately, some of us got to work. Sorry, you guys. But I see quality today like launching off with some waves going pretty high with her jumps and I never see.

A girl, do that maybe like in Mali or like on Instagram, but live. I was like, Oh, pretty impressive. She's jumping pretty high from Flatwater to jumping off waves. She getting pretty high and I was like, wow, she's getting good. Yep. Awesome. Yeah. Yeah. That's fun. We'll see, we don't have any women that are winning in Buffalo.

I was trying to get my daughters to do it today, but they weren't buying it. Yeah, this is a diamond head. So that's, I've got that Cabrina right there. That's you right there, dead handling. And that's got the floppy handles, but I put an Armstrong bar between it, which tighten it up a little bit.

But if you said, is that my favorite program? I would say probably not just because it's just a little bit loose. But the handles have a rigid part in the middle, right? So they stiff in the middle, but then the connection between the strap and the handle itself is that's where the looseness comes from.

Or I've never tried it too long handles. That's a Cabrina X too. It's got a long handle. It's about, I don't know, 14 inches in the front and just two little webbing straps holding it in. And then there's a separated area about four inches and another one. So what I did is far apart. Yeah. I took the Armstrong bar though and put it between the two to try to tighten it up, which helped a little bit, but still, I don't think it's the optimal arrangement.

I actually really liked the the slick situation with the mini boom. I would really rather have more stability is stiffer program. I know it's not as good to flag out that's for sure. But for like for link tax and pumping up onto the wave or getting foiling I liked that. But I'm getting more into the wave stuff, so I'll be back in wine in a couple of weeks.

So we'll see how the, how I can get that to work. Yeah. Jeremy and I tried to prototype of this slick and obviously as a windsurfer, I love having that rigid boom, but I did find that too. Like when you love it, it doesn't like the profile, doesn't it doesn't love very well. It stays rigid as it has this really rigid, stiff profile.

So even when you love it, it's like a really thick kind of heavy wing and it doesn't really. Totally deep power, right? It doesn't feel, it still feels like it has pull on it even when it's left at somehow. Is that how you feel about it too? Yeah, no I do feel that way and again, everything's a give and take.

So for my situation, because I, we do get waves, but it's gotta be super windy. The wind driven waves. They don't have a lot of push behind them. Like Ontario, they're a little better than Lake Erie, but in general, I just don't have sets coming through like you folks do. So the majority of the time, 80% of the time, let's say I would rather have better low end stiffer, better to come around on a foiling tack everything's stable versus a lighter type scenario.

But I would be interested in knowing which one, which w handling do you guys think flags out the vest, which one floats behind you? The best guys. For me, it's hard to say. I tried a lot of different wings and some of my, you always have a compromising, a lot of people think, Oh, I just need this wing or I need that equipment and this and that.

But a lot of times I think the current generation of wings are all pretty good. It's not like that. There's some, I don't think any of the bigger brand name wings or there's any bad ones really. It's just, they have different things that they're good at and different things. You're not as good at, for us riding waves. Yeah. We like weighing that handles really well. Bluffing and yeah, I don't know. I think all the ones we use are more oriented towards that. The ozone Armstrong, the PPC wing that I'm using and the ANSYS, I don't know which one do you think is the best?

Jeff, you've tried it a lot. I think I agree with you. There are really good, except just recently using that instance, score that one kind of stands out now just because it just getting it into that position is so quick and easy. Like when I was using the first instance wing, sometimes when I put it back, it would dip and flip over, and then you've got to flip it back, but this one, you push it back there and it just instantly goes into the perfect spot.

And it feels effortless. So that's so far, that's the best one I felt in terms of getting it back there for flagging, it just stays there. It doesn't, you don't even really know it's there. And you can like that one in the F1. You can actually let go of it and just hold it by the leash. I guess they call it walking the dog.

And it'll just park up there without even holding the handle. I think. For me, those are the best two ones I found. Especially that new instance, I'm really liking that one. Yeah. And that's, I think that happens with a lot of wings, especially if you're going fast and a little bit Upland on the going up, went on the wave.

If you let go of it, sometimes it still has kind of power in it and then tends to want to. Yeah, like you said, like the leading edge wants to dip down. And you almost have to force it into neutral. So yeah, that's cool. That's good. Yeah. Like a lot of the wings I'd have to let it go back in and pull it forward to the airfield under it.

So then the front would indep, he had to do that backward forward thing, but this one, you just throw it back there and it's. Instantly. Perfect. It's pretty good. I was talking to Eddie and he said that the PPC wing, which kind of has a real nice neutral handle handling and it's stays level by itself.

But he was saying he was having a hard time tacking it because when he puts it over his head, it just flies level and it's harder to make it switch from one side to the other side, so I was telling him me, I push it over in the tack, so it goes push it over to the other side.

So it doesn't get parked in that flat position, because once it's in that flat position, it's really hard to get it back out of it. Yeah. I thought that PPC wing was really nice actually as well balanced if we really well. Yeah, like you said, they're all really good now this second generation of wings.

Yeah. They're all, duotone the other dual tones. They definitely like the first wing for that. I had. I had to pretty much always hold the handle because if I held the front handle, it would just start flip-flopping and then just flip over on the wave. So that was like a totally different style of whinging, but it's still worked.

It's not like it was terrible and now it actually was really good for tacking because it would just talk over by itself. Almost. I get had so much V in it that it just wanted to flip over from one side to the other by itself. You didn't have to push it at all. It just did it by itself.

So how long ago do you think that was, that you were still riding that thing? It wasn't that long ago, right? A year ago. Yeah. Last year. Last summer, I think is when I got the echo. Yeah, last summer. And then when did you start writing the PPC. The PPC. I got the first one in early this year, I think.

Yeah. 2021. Yeah. Just within a year, it's your sailing has evolved a lot, from holding the front of the Deuteron until now. You're doing a lot of things differently, the PPC, and then you're trying to fuck us in all that. Yeah. Definitely having a wing that handles well, it makes a difference, especially if you get, if you're getting more advanced, but I would say for a lot of people don't obsess over having the perfect gear because it's more about the time on the water and get practicing and and just getting used to it and making, making the most of it.

Every everything's gonna have some pluses and some minuses, like it's hard to have everything in one wing, like a wing that's better in the ways might not be as powerful or might not go upwind as well or whatever for Flatwater and so on. I think that's where a wing, like the That do a ton.

Slick is a really good Flatwater wing, as powerful as compact. It's good for like kind of Flatwater going back and forth and going fast and stuff, but maybe not as good in the waves, and I think that's where duotone, they have that slick for those kinds of conditions. And then they have an echo, which is more of a wave riding wing, that's what Ken, when they said that he designed the echo more as, and not the echo what's it called?

The other one. Jason, you had that one, the unit right. Unit and unit is more of a wave wing right now. Yeah. I think Jed hit it on the head. If you're not having fun, if your equipment's holding you back from having fun, then it's not happening. So that's the primary thing. In terms of buying equipment, you got to buy what's right for you where you sell and be realistic.

So that you're on well, Elena was seeing and. You actually having, that's what it's all about having fun. Yeah, I, I had a friend actually here in Buffalo. I started on a gold foil. Malico two 80, because again, I'm like 220 pounds, 65. I'm athletic and I'm fit, but I wanted to make it as easy as possible.

And I got out of that thing. And the first day I went out, I was spoiling going back and forth. It was almost spoiling through terms the first day on that Melisko two 80 and a friend of mine, who's actually a very competent, tight forward. Excellent. Tight foiler he was on Moses type foil equipment.

He went like right to the 99 liter Armstrong with an 1850 HS. And he farted around in the water and got dragged and he didn't have a good experience at all. It took him probably four months where I pretty much got right on. And I would say our skillsets were very similar, but he didn't start with big enough gear.

And I think it wasn't as much fun now he's doing pretty good, but he like, he went to that detail right away and I don't think he should have gone to it because he was out the other day and he couldn't get up on foil and the VTL doesn't have as much squirt surface area. So if you're pumping, it's not going to pump as well as the 300.

So I think you really got to look at your conditions for sure. Yeah, that's a good point. I think you shouldn't worry too much as a beginner about buying the advance. Like a lot of people are like, Oh, I don't want to outgrow my gear too quickly. So I'm going to get more advanced stuff. And then, but like you said, like a lot of times it just leads to struggling, but on the other end, there's those people like Nani who's started on a small board and got some good instructions from Daniel, but, she never really had to use a bigger board, so she figured it out right away from the start on a small board with the smaller foil. So that's pretty impressive. But she also has a background in kiting and watersports background. Yeah. Yeah. She's been cutting. I dunno for how many years?

Probably like 10 years or so, and now she don't even do it anymore. She just wings I'm like, so Danielle. When you first started the thing, like I remember going out and Kyla with you and a few other guys that were just starting and that we were practicing on the beach and stuff like that. And you had this huge stand-up paddle board that was a seven, seven, eight like a standup paddle board with a foil box in it.

And I did drag the thing what is that from like the clay area all the way back up to the boat round, probably like a mile over a mile. And I had a lift wing, which is like a lift 200 surf. And that thing couldn't lift that thing at all with a four meter way. And I'm like, so what you guys was just talking about, I think you got to go big or like they say go home because it's not going to happen.

So everybody who starts, I like. Go big. And they're like, no, Nope, go big everything. Big foil, big board, big wing. And that's the easiest way for you to pretty much get up on four and you learn faster. Yeah. Yeah. So like it took me one month because I went live 200 surf wing, four meter ozone wing and a seven, eight board.

And that's not a good combination. It took me one month to get on flow, which I was about to quit. I was going to quit. I was telling Jason and my other friend, David, and they were like, don't quit. And I was like, ah, I think I'm going to quit. And sure enough, our other friend, David, he quit

in Florida. We stuck it all in. We're still doing it because. Just us being together, like with Robert and Jeff and Derek and, Todd and all these other handful of guys that we win-win. We just, now we just pushing each other, we just stick it out and just try to progress.

Yeah. No, it's definitely fun to go out with friends because yeah. Like whenever we go out together, we push each other and stuff like that. Yeah. But then sometimes actually I find that I actually have really good sessions when I don't have that pressure to like, when there's no one outside, I'm just by myself and nobody's watching then for some reason I wing better when they don't have that pressure of trying to and show off or whatever, and then th there was another guy in this video. The guy, Danny Samante, he had an orange F1, but he's been really doing really good too. And he's like in his fifties and he's. He's been coming along like really well, like tacking and jumping. Like he's just so into winging now. Like he's hot. That's all he wants to do is just wig.

Like I barely even see him stand up for her anymore. And he's a really good stand-up foil. He's a legend. Like he started like before me, like Stan, like foiling, I asked him about it back in the day and it was hard. And he said, no, it's easy. I was like, okay. I think I better try it. But yeah, he's got really good.

Like he's bossing like airs off waves too, like going high. So he loves jumping. Yeah, he loves jumping, but just now that was Eddie and Mario coming in perfectly at the end of their session. So that was a good one to, to watch. If you want to come in at that spot at Kala coming over the reef, you got to know exactly where to go and we're not to go more importantly.

Alright, that was all the footage we got. You guys have anything else to add? Any tips for learning beginner? The people getting into the sport. The one thing I would say is you really can't be too old. We got a guy here in ball float. He gets guys is hard as nails, man. He's tough guys, construction guy.

He's 72 years old. And he was a kite foiler. So he had foiling experience, but he switched over and he's getting dragged all around and everyday comes in with a smile on his face and he just can't be happy. Any happier learning something new. I think that's going throughout our group here, you learn something new, you get a challenge, you try to go further, you get a challenge and it's so rewarding when you're together with your bodies and cruising along above the water with no sound and no friction, it's actually easier on your body.

So I think that's the greatest thing about it. You don't have to be super fit. You have to be dedicated and tenacious, but the end result, if you stick with it is great. Yeah. Yeah. I would say. No matter how frustrated you are just keep going. Don't give up. Like in the end, it's rewarding.

I think also just like Jason said, just keep buying, but maintaining just try to be safe. Sometimes it's pretty scary. Like I said, I slipped my toe the other day from the foil and just got out and I didn't know it was that big, but it stood it right open, but just try to be safe and and try not to go up by yourself, like chubby with, a couple of guys or another guy, as it can get dangerous.

Was that from your retail? No, that was just from I don't know what part of the tale, but I was using the flat tail and I just, I, what I'm taking is when I fell, cause the wind was light with a shorter leash, which is only like four feet, it tends to sling back at you. And so it's, it pulled back quick on the water when I came up and it sliced my foot, I'm thinking I might have to start hitting a longer leash.

I had one before, but I just changed to a port for leash, but I think four foot is too short. Yeah. That's what I like about the retracting leashes that your board has stays away from you until you want it back again. So I'm looking at that too, looking into the like I'm tryna get along, maybe go to back to a longer leash, at least a six foot.

Cause I think the four foot is just too short. It always comes back at me real quick or it'll come back. But then the board of flip upside down, because it just it's whipping back. So the board would just spin upside down in the fall. But in the air you don't have enough, what's your ag dangerous for your wing, right?

Yeah, for my wing. And when I come up, I see it like coming at me too sometime. So I think I might change leash for sure.

Some of you are sitting and watching this video and you haven't even started winging and what you're thinking about getting into it. There's a bunch of us who would do lessons. Daniel does lessons, Danny does lessons, and we've seen the progression of how people learn. So if you can find someone to help you, that's very helpful.

They don't have to be a professional instructor. You can find one. That's great, but if you don't have one in your area, find a experienced winger. And because there's certain safety things about winging that you need to learn. And then make your experience a lot more fun and then faster.

A faster learning curve, if you get good instruction, because like you can like when Rob and I first tried to, when we, the first thing we did was a five mile dollar lender and we figured it out along the way, but that's not really the way to do it. Cause you know, you can get stuck out there, the wink and therefore can flip over and puncture the wing and then you're stranding, so there's things like self rescue leashes and all these safety things that you need to learn. So you have find someone who you think is competent at your beach and see if they can give you some pointers and then get the proper equipment like Jared was saying, you might need some bigger equipment.

And then you can also do things like learn on a sub board, just get a sub board and just practice, swing handling on that. You don't even need to have before and then incorporate the four later. Yeah, so getting some kind of advice is very helpful. If you cannot do that, then Rob has a whole bunch of really good videos that he's posted.

And there's other good videos online about how to wing. There's a whole series by ozone. There's other guy gunner. He also has a bunch, but he used to go on YouTube and search how to wing. You'll be surprised how much stuff pops up, but spend some time investigating and researching that and learning before you go out.

And and then yet I'm sure, whatever you do when you get out there. You'll I guarantee you'll have a good time. If you take it the proper steps, we know one at a time, so it's very addicting and it's also rewarding at the same time. Yeah, Damian, Leroy. Those guys are doing some really good videos too instructional videos online.

So yeah, there's a lot of good information on YouTube for sure. And yeah, for beginners, what else was I gonna say? Yeah. Sorry for Robert. Yeah. Yeah. I was going to mention that try to learn one thing at a time. Don't try to learn foiling and weeing at the same time.

Basically. You want to learn the wing hand Lang separately. Jeff was saying either on a standup paddle paddleboard with ideally with a daggerboard like an old windsurf board works long. Cause it keeps you up when better. And then yeah. Skateboard boards are great, except that people can tend to damage their wings easily.

If you drag the wing tip on the asphalt, Dennis kind of ruin it, but so you want to avoid that. You want to avoid that for sure. But yeah, it's that's it for me. That's how I learned how to tack basically as on escape me to figuring out how to tack and shift the wing over your head and stuff like that.

Because you can just take your time and you're not going to come off the foil and stuff like that. And then, yeah, and this practicing a lot on the beach with the wing, just getting used to the wing, handling, understanding how to lift up the tip, but keep it. Keep the wing pulling you forward without touching the tip on the water, basically.

And that's a skill you can learn before you get in the water and save you a lot of falling in and getting back on again. The other thing is going out on the right day. You want 15 miles an hour or 15 to 20 when you first start, because if you go out in 10, you're just gonna, you're gonna float around.

And if it's over 20, you're probably going to get blown off the water. Right guys. Yeah. Yeah, it's actually funny. Cause the first wing that I got duo only had one, three meters size wing available. So I sent it and so I had to learn on a three meter wing and could really only go out when it was like blowing 25 knots or something like that.

But then it worked fine. That's actually why I, the opposite situation, I got a six meter rolls on wasp and I, again, taking my own advice, there was probably way too much wind. It was about 25 miles an hour over the six meter ozone and in the 186 liter, easy foil that easy for that. I bought from you, Robert where the huge front Wang.

And when I was over foiling, I was going over to the side and the thing, it was just, it was a mess, but then you learn and then you get a smaller setup and you get dialed in. Yeah. And yeah, one thing that's really cool about winning the thing is that it's just not, it's not as is Agora surfing or is this everyone's welcoming?

There's like plenty of room. There's like a lot of places you can go there's you can ride waves that other people don't really want to ride anyways, where there's like a diamond and we just go off to the side where none of the surfers want to go anyways, cause the waves are too soft over there, but Yeah.

Is this allows you to get out, get away from the crowd like Danielle was saying, and then you don't have all the, you don't, you're not like packed at a point where the wave breaks and everybody's like shimmying to get the perfect spot to catch the wave. And so on. Is this more you get more time on the foil and more time having fun and not stressing about stuff, I think, and so it's great ways to get, sorry, go ahead, Jason.

Yeah, you don't have to paddle. You just catch a wave and you don't have to paddle back out to catch a wave. You just pull down to the wind and get back out and get another wave and that's pure enjoyment. Just hear everybody cheering each other on it. So you guys noticed when you're over at diamond head and the, all the surfers, the prone surfers are just laying in the water and they're envious and they're looking at you like, geez, man, like I got to paddle for waves and wait for waves.

And I can't see waves. That's the thing I just love about it because you can just zip all around. You're really, if it's windy enough you're never really in the water unless you're doing a Trek and fall. We have this good spot here, which is like a foiler is paradise. And it happens in a winter and it's called Kahana Bay.

And when that thing is smoking weed, when we get about an and good waves, we get about 60 guys, all in that Bay of foils. So now us wingers started whinging behave. We go way out and come in like bumps. And I get like Texas, like messages, good to see out there, buy a home. Next time it rains. Like we just, we get, like I told my friend, you should try winging it.

And he said, no, I don't like it. And I said, okay I'm just going to catch 20 ways to your ways that Kahana is like, no, you're not. And I'm like, okay. So I showed him, I'm going to catch so much waves. You'll probably only catch three for your whole two hours. So that's fun too. Cause it's blowing on shore.

So it's really hard to paddle back out. Yeah. It takes a long time to get all the way back to the outside and you're paddling and yeah. And even pumping out as hard too, because you pumping into the wind. So it's so hard. Exactly. So when we get like people like us swingers from the South shore and then the North shore guys come down and we meet up at Kahana and we're we get our own like all the filers with big smiles on our face.

I'm like,

Go off. Yeah. Yeah. On any last words?

I appreciate your stoke there. Thanks for including me, Robert Aloha. Thanks for Jenny has Jed. Can't wait for you to come back in August. Thanks Daniel. You guys are so welcoming. It was just, I had the greatest time. And again, I just met you guys a couple of weeks ago and Robert and I have been going back and forth, but sharing the stoke and being on the wave with you is just been amazing.

I've just had a great time. So thanks for your, you did super good. I was amazed how you. You like switching stance and whatnot. I'm like, I can't even do that. Like I should sing ah, it's so funny. Sure. You could, but again, we don't have the waves, so we, we do different stuff. I was funny.

I was talking to one last little tip here. I was, I'm actually learning how to go with my feet right next to each other, like my shoulders, my feet, or anything, my shoulders. So that, helps you get your four and a half foiling and your side to side foiling. And it kinda makes just everything a lot easier in terms of switching feet.

And I may be telling you guys something you, you already know, but for folks out there who are just going from foiling to jiving, to learning how to tack, that's a great way to get your balance in order, and to keep your feet together and actually go through the jive both ways with your feet right next to each other, right.

Or any of your body. It's a great way to learn and then just switch your feet. Yeah. Yeah, I did here, I think here on Oahu, like there's only like a handful of guys that can switch on one of them is Jeff. Is this I think Zach and Glen L can too. Jeff, but it's so hard. Like the rest of us, we really want to try, like I tried and I almost eat my fate my fault.

And I'm like, I'm over this yeah. It's not so hard to, I think you have to learn it on a bigger, more stable board where you can touch down and switch your feet. And I did it at one time, like on a six, six Oh, and a bigger, wider Senate paddleboard. And I could do it like Hawaii, Kai and water, but then on a smaller was like, yeah, it's like impossible.

So I gave up on it again. Yeah, I think it's the crating background. So that's why he's talking, going out switch and I switched. But for those of you out there, we have this Awahoo wing foyers group. It's a WhatsApp chat group and there's some hilarious back and forth going on over there as well as some awesome videos and photos being posted.

But the one recurring one that comes up is switch. And there's maybe the prompt filers are the pretty much don't switch because they're used to just staying in one stance. And then the kiters like, they're pretty used to switching from creating. And then, so the topic will come up switch and Derrick's done most notorious.

He goes, what new needs switch? And then Zach and Grinnell popping what? What's so hard about switching. So is it recurring just so you guys know it pops up every. So often we get this switch controversy popping up on our chat group. So it's not only on this talk here, but it's on that chat group and in the whole community on a wall, it's interesting.

I've noticed

no need to switch, right? I gotta say like switching the switching it I see the pros and cons of it. If you switch and you're going out to a wave, you better make sure you're switching back to your regular stance because you're not going to surf that wave in a switch stance. What I do.

So make sure you on your game, because when that wave is coming down, you don't want to be stuck, like getting more, but at whitewash with your wing and I can see, so that's what I can see. Like their expires, don't need to switch cause you just going right into the wave. On your good stents, but on the other hand like Darnell and Zack, where they talk about switching, I, and as I look, and I see Jared and Jeff and Zach and Glendale, like while we're all, I see them like shooting up when so hard.

And I'm like on my tool set, I'm like, and I'm losing ground. And I'm like, I wish I knew how to switch because you guys just pull up like way ahead of us. And it's ah, that's not fair. I got to learn that. What is so hard, like crystal to pull the trigger and even practice it. Yeah. The only time I actually do it is just if I get blown away down when, and have to go way back up men again, or if we're going out at diamond head, then you can just go way out in one tax switch and go all the way up to the break.

So that's the only time I've ever switched. Cause you're right down yet. If you. Once you tap, finish your tack, you got to jump your feet and then go back out, so you gotta make that jump basically. Yeah. If there's ways right before the wave, it's sketchy, but I see Jeff he goes way out to see like the whales.

I'm like, Oh my God. Then he starts coming back in, like on his switch stand side and just sheeting in like hard. And I'm like, Oh man, like even getting up. Sometimes I used to see him just get up on his switch side, which is pulling him like almost punch like straight into with the wave and getting up with the wave.

It just makes you get up on flow easier. And so I'm like, huh, man. I wish I knew how to switch, but it's just, I dunno, I don't want to put a trigger. I got to stick with Derek and Morty there.

I give you guys credit for switching now, man. Yeah. And I just wanted to say Jed to the reason why I invited you is because you like, your stoke level is so high. I mean that you get up at three in the morning to be on a zoom call with us and just like emailing me like five times a day about your new board and whatever.

Clearly they excited about waiting for them to have that kind of stuff. Stoke level. Just great to be with people who share a passion for being outside, getting exercise. Getting those endorphins going. I totally liked Damien Leroy cause he, he talks about a lot of fun stuff.

Like getting out there, shoulders, share the stoke of Aloha, treat others the way you want to be treated, get through life and have a good time while you're doing it. Cause you're only going to do it once. So I think we're all together on that one. Yeah. All right. I think that's a good note to end it up on.

Hey, thank you everyone for watching the video and Aloha. I'll see you next time. We'll have to do this again. Next time we have some good footage. We'll show it again. Thank you guys. Bye-bye.

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