Episode 46: PODCAST: Episode 46 | Post SOAS | SEALSWCC.COM

The Official Navy SEAL and SWCC Podcast

Time to await fate. The trial of SOAS is over and now the SEAL candidates are chosen. Learn what goes into the process of selecting the winners.
Scott (Host)
Welcome to another edition of ‘The Only Easy Day Was Yesterday’. I'm your host, Scott Williams, and today we're going to be talking SOAS. We have our SOAS representative, retired SEAL Lieutenant, Andrew Dow. And Andrew we've covered this now, three times. And we've talked about how to get ready for SOAS, what to expect, how to train for SOAS, all that good stuff, and then actually seeing a SOAS live in the flesh and watching as the evolutions go down. Today, we're going to talk about the aftermath. What happens when candidates have actually attended SOAS, gone through the two weeks, and gone home, and now they're waiting? So, tell me first, what happens after those evolutions are done, from the staff perspective.
Andrew (Guest)
Okay. All right. So, we did talk about, you know, the whole pre-op, pre-application, we talked about assessment week, interview week, but what happens afterward is there's a SEAL panel, a SEAL Selection panel, and every applicant that attends SOAS finishes SOAS with a SOAS scorecard. Basically, it explains, and it tracks everything they've done during the SOAS both interview weekend and assessment week. So, it's their scorecard that shows how well they did on certain evolutions, instructor inputs, and peer inputs, all gets compiled, and the scorecard gets forwarded to the SEAL Selection panel. The panel happens at the end of the third block in September. There's a week-long process where several O-5s and O-6s and now this year alone, the two-star Admiral of WARCOM will be the panel president. They come together and they sit down and go through each application, their pre-application, they go through each scorecard, and they determine which applicant will receive orders to BUD/S and will receive a bill to become an 1130. Excuse me, 1180.
Scott (Host)
You mentioned that the flag is sitting in this time. I think it's the first time that's happened.
Andrew (Guest)
That's correct. Yeah. In the past, it used to be the commodore of Naval Special Warfare Center. But this year, we're moving with having the two-star sit as the panel president.
Scott (Host)
Yeah, I imagined as one of those potential selectees that I'd be at home sitting thinking, who is evaluating me right now?
Andrew (Guest)
Well as in SOAS the evaluators and the assessors are NSW instructors and regular operators that will write down everything about you everything you do, but on the actual panel, you're having senior leadership, O-5 Commanders of SEAL teams, Commanders of Basic Training Command, the Commander of Advanced Training Command, you'll have the Commodore who's an O-6, which is a Captain in the Navy, sitting at the panel who used to be the panel president but now the Naval Special Warfare Command Admiral, two star, will be leading that panel.
Scott (Host)
So, what are the big things they're looking for in that panel?
Andrew (Guest)
Right. So, it hasn't changed much in the past, except that now that Naval Special Warfare is focused more on maritime and going towards that route of operations overseas. They're looking for, either way, they're looking for the whole-person approach. They want to see candidates that have great character, great teamwork, professionalism, and leadership, and are able to work in different situations that they can adapt to. So, what's tested at SOAS and that's what's presented at the board. They're looking at their cognitive abilities, their behavioral aptitudes, they're looking at their physical performance, which is very important, their comfortability in the water, as well as they'll be tested on their leadership abilities. They'll be put in tough situations. So, the results of those situations will be presented to the board as well. So, the big three are character, cognitive ability, and physicality.
Scott (Host)
And, you know, we've heard of the gray man concept where, you know, you kind of sneak through BUD/S with not being the guy who's at the bottom and not the guy who's drawing attention as a star performer, but kind of blending in with the pack. How does the panel look at the gray man?
Andrew (Guest)
Every community has a gray man, right? But in the officer community, you can't be a gray man. They're selecting the ones that stand out, they're not selecting the ones that do poorly and it's becoming more and more the norm to not select gray men. So, if you're the type of person who's very quiet and timid, and hey, I just, I'm just doing this to get by, you shouldn't even come and apply because you're not going to get selected the bottom line, they want to see the outgoing people, the people who aren't afraid to take risks, you know, coordinated risks and calculated risks. Excuse me. The gray man, as you're talking about Scott, as officers, that really doesn't sit well with the panel they're not going to move forward with someone who is I don't want to say introverted, because obviously, you have to be outspoken you need to be able to present yourself and to your, your, your subordinates. But as a gray man, they're going to pass you by, you're probably not going to get selected, to be honest.
Scott (Host)
So maximum individual output, but also maximum teamwork?
Andrew (Guest)
I'd say teamwork and vocalization. So, they're not looking for the, you know, the cheerleader who's looking at me, look, I'm the one talking all the time, just saying whatever they want to hear. They're looking for the ones who are actually saying the things that need to be said, the ones that are actually stepping out of that comfort zone of should I say something or should I just sit back. They're looking for the ones that are like, okay, I have a plan, explaining it to their men and women that this is what we need to do. And all of this is getting documented on their SOAS scorecard. So, the panel will see this, who's a gray man, who's a good-spoken leader, who's the ones that are just there to get a, you know, a nice flare on their chip saying, hey, I made it through SOAS.
Scott (Host)
How do the quotas work? I mean, how many people are going to make that panel and roughly how many get selected.
Andrew (Guest)
So, every year, the Admiral looks at the entire force and sees how many officers will be needed to fill in those ranks that are now missing. Each year, we're looking at sending to BUD/S roughly 80 to 95 Officer candidates to go to BUD/S. From that, their hope – their intent – is to get at least 60 to 70 Officer candidates to get through the pipeline, and to later on check into the teams. The one other thing though is those numbers have been relatively the same each year. As we spoke in an earlier webinar, you know, OCS specifically for being selected for BUD/S from the selection panel, OCS, we're looking at probably 90 to 100 applications and from that, we have about 60 attend SOAS and of that 60, only about 15 are 15 to 20, I'd say because there are some alternates, that get selected to go to BUD/S. And each accession source has a different one. But strictly OCS, that's the number for there. Naval academy has their own process that they select how many get through. ROTC same thing. I can go into those numbers too, give a broad range of that so that, you know the listeners can have an idea of okay, what are what are my chances what is the percentage of me, you know, being picked up if you want.
Scott (Host)
Shoot.
Andrew (Guest)
Okay, so we have OCS. We have ROTC. ROTC, we see about 70 to 80 applications a year, of that 70 to 80, the board usually gets about 50 to look at. And of that 50 they pick about 15 to 20 to go to BUD/S. Naval Academy like I said, does their whole internal down selection to see who goes to so as themselves, but they start with as high as 250 to 300 applications, candidates and from there, they do their own little screeners, or they have two screeners a year and have that they probably send about 100. They have about 150 that come out of the screeners. From that 150, they only send about 60. So, they have a pretty intense down-selection process themselves. Of that 60 who attend SOAS, Naval Academy sends maybe 25 to 35 candidates to BUD/S. So that selection process is very...
Scott (Host)
rigorous.
Andrew (Guest)
Thank you. Yes, rigorous. We have OCS, ROTC, and Naval Academy. Then there's the other accession sources, which we don't see as many applications for, and we don't see as many selected from that inner service transfer, when you have like your Marine Corps, your Army officers, your Air Force officers that apply for SOAS and attend. We see probably about from each one of those probably about five to ten a year and the selection panel maybe picks one or two maybe. As long as they have, you know everything we're looking for and that their service is willing to let them go to cross over to the Navy. We also see Merchant Marine Academy.
Scott (Host)
I remember we've even in the past seen a couple of Coast Guard Officer candidates come through quite some time ago.
Andrew (Guest)
Since I've been working, in the seat, I've seen probably three Coast Guard and strictly enlisted. Coast Guard enlisted apply that would like to go Officer. Enlisted to Officer. So, OCS Enlisted category. Before I touch on the Coast Guard specifically, the OCS enlisted side basically, that's anyone who is active duty in service from your seamen, seamen recruit your E-3 to I've seen an E-6. Actually, an E-7 this year, we have an E-7, which is the Chief applying. That is probably the hardest road any candidate accession source has because they're competing against Trident wearers. They're competing against SEALs who are enlisted that want to become officers. So, they fall in the same pool as those at the selection panel. So, any enlisted sailor that applies for SOAS that goes to SOAS that goes to the selection panel is actually competing against Trident wearers. So, it's a very, very challenging route, we get about 10 to 15 of those applications a year, and probably about one to two is selected each year to go to BUD/S. It's a risk that the panel takes because they obviously are presenting or showing something that the community is interested in. But back to the Coast Guard, they fall in the same category, but they would be interservice transfers. But once again, they would actually have to take one of the spots of the OCS enlisted. So, I've seen two or three. I'm not sure what it is, maybe it's the Coast Guard in general. They're not sending or allowing to send that many applicants. Because I believe several years ago, we actually had an officer get through, and as I Trident. To sum it up, I haven't seen many because I think the Coast Guard is keeping a close hold on who's being allowed to leave their service.
Scott (Host)
Well, it's always about the needs of the service first. So, we do have male and female candidates go to SOAS and then those results are sent to the panel. How does the panel evaluate candidates in a gender-neutral manner?
Andrew (Guest)
As candidates apply, both male and female, they go through a down-selection panel with the SEAL OCM and then they themselves the applicant and the application moves forward through SOAS. At the end of SOAS, all applicants and applications are put in front of the SEAL selection panel, which is run by the two-star Admiral. To keep everything straight and professional, the gender identifiers, remove everything. So, they keep gender blind. So, all the panel is seeing is their scores, comments that are made about the candidate, they specifically say rather than he or she they'll say the candidate. There's no picture, there's no identifier. So, it's just strictly, 'how well did this candidate perform at SOAS' and any input that assessors may have if they want to look further, they'll look at their application, their actual application, but all that is scrubbed and keep the gender bias.
Scott (Host)
So, they're looking at quantitative data and qualitative data that is scrubbed of gender identifiers.
Andrew (Guest)
Exactly. Yep.
Scott (Host)
So, that sounds good. So, they go through a process of selecting candidates, and now they have the list that they've chosen to attend, but how do they get the word out? How soon do they get the word out? And what form does that take? Is it an email or a phone call? Who is it to?
Andrew (Guest)
Okay, so, in September when the seal selection panel convenes, they finish deciding from which session source will be selected to go to BUD/S. They honestly create a master kind of notification sheet, and this sheet has every candidate that applied if was selected. This gets sent out to the SEAL Officer community manager who then will make the formal notifications of who was selected. The SEAL OCM will notify the ROTC higher headquarters with the list, who will then trickle it down to all the units to let their candidates know if he or she made it or was selected or not. The Naval Academy same thing, the Naval Academy and I think ROTC have a specific it's called service selection night where they're notified if they what selection service selection there'll be going to. So, I believe that happens in November or December for Naval Academy and ROTC. Everyone else is usually notified, usually the middle of October end of it October or sometimes early November, if they've been selected or not. So, they'll be notified usually through email through the SEAL OCM, the SEAL Officer Community Manager if they've been selected or not. Sometimes for OCS, specifically, the Seal Community Manager will notify their recruiters, CRNC. And they will once again trickle it down to each individual recruiting station, who will then notify their applicant if they've been selected or not. So, usually about a month after selection, they're notified.
Scott (Host)
That sounds good. So, if I'm that candidate, and I get the bad news that I didn't make it, what can I do to start getting ready for the next cycle? I still want to take another crack at this, I know where I can improve. But I want some more insights.
Andrew (Guest)
What's really neat about this process is every candidate gets two attempts at SOAS. You can apply as many times as you want, but you get two boots on the ground you're at SOAS attempts. At the end of SOAS, if you find out you weren't selected and this was your first attempt, you can reapply and try again, you know the following year. The SOAS, the SEAL Officer Assessment Selection Officer-In-Charge, in the past has done a debrief for each candidate before the panel itself so you'll know leaving SOAS before the selection panel happens, what your strengths and weaknesses were. And you'll also get a copy of the scorecard that the selection panels looking at will see all your greens and your reds, your goods and your bads. So, you'll be walking away with 'okay if I'm not selected, this is what I need to work on'. So you have some homework to do. So, you can go back and train harder or work on the things that the SOAS staff saw that you needed to work on. Another resource you have is one side component of my job is also I host six webinars a year, it was based around the NROTC schedule. So we did three in the fall semester and three in the spring semester. And that maintains but instead of just ROTC I've opened it up to OCS and any other candidate that is interested in going to SEAL pipeline as an officer to attend. It's as easy as just shooting me an email and I'll add you to a distro list, I have an email distribution list that I send to all interested candidates. And this gives them the schedule of one I'll be running these webinars, the webinars, I think it's a great resource. It's very informal, it's just me up there, I'll have a topic to talk about. It's the main purpose of these webinars – so candidates can meet other candidates that are interested in doing what they want to do. And it gives them another resource that could potentially give them a swim buddy to train with, if they find out they're in a town next to each other, or they're from the same town. But it also gives them, like, that social network that the Naval Academy has, because the Naval Academy, I mean, all the candidates are sleeping in the same dormitory. So they're constantly getting feedback from each other. And they have that access of having SEALs on the Naval Academy campus grounds. So I'm trying to give that to them. And someone they can reach out to ask all those questions that they may not feel comfortable asking active-duty SEALs. So, they can ask me anything regarding the SEAL application or, you know, what are some strengths and weaknesses. So the bottom line is it's just kind of a gathering point for candidates who are wanting to become SEAL officers to get to know each other because the webinar lasts probably an hour for each session, but I leave it open after I leave, I leave it open for the candidates to just, you know, have small talk and discuss amongst themselves 'hey, what do you write on your application or different tips or tricks that you've learned throughout the process'. Even for those individuals who are applying a second time, they may be able to give feedback to these other interested candidates about their application what was strong and what was weak even before going to SOAS, so they know even before submitting an application so they know okay I should watch out for this and learn from each other from trial and error.
Scott (Host)
What's a typical SOAS topic? Like what did you talk about the last time.
Andrew (Guest)
So, I break it down. One of my intents, is I try to reach out to some the SEALs I know to come on and give their experience whether they've been through SOAS, whether they you know their experience as a junior officer and the team's their experience in BUD/S, experience in SQT, leadership experiences. I try to touch on everything with these speakers to come and talk about and it's an open forum. So, you know, they'll give their 10-15 minutes speech on leadership or mental toughness. And then the guest speaker will open it up to questions and that's the opportunity for candidates to ask any question they want to an active-duty SEAL officer. I also tried to bring in SEAL enlisted to get the enlisted point of view to kind of talk on what they look for in their junior officers and officers being groomed in the community. What these enlisted operators want to see in their officers, to get a little poll on each type of SEAL officer that's coming into the community. So, I tried to hit senior enlisted as guest speakers, I tried to get junior officers, mid-grade officers. I try to get just people who've been in the pipeline enough to speak on SOAS but also the ones who are past that to speak on their time in the teams as junior officers and through the ranks. I mean, I'll also hit on I'll have a specific webinar on the SOAS application process. I'll have one on mental toughness, different tricks that can help compose yourself while you're going through the entire process. We'll discuss the ethos in the SEAL creed. Just so because a lot of these candidates might not know about the whole community. So, I tried to give them an NSW 101.
Scott (Host)
That's some great until and I thank you for joining us. This has been a very informative four-part series about SOAS. Hopefully, we've covered all the bases that candidates need to hear when they're considering a career as an NSW SEAL Officer. We're going to get together again, I'm sure in the future, and talk more about Officer issues but for now, that's going to wrap it up for today. I'm Scott Williams. Thanks for joining us, Andrew Dow, for another edition of 'The Only Easy Day Was Yesterday'.
Andrew (Guest)
Thanks again.