Beyond Hispanic Heritage Month: Building community and driving inclusion

Inclusivity Included: Powerful personal stories

Hispanic National Bar Association President Carlos Bollar discusses his efforts to create workplaces, law firms, and a legal industry that better reflect and include the Latinx/Hispanic community. In a session hosted by DE&I Advisor Iveliz Crespo and Partner Julia Lopez, Bollar provides guidance on how organizations can improve their efforts to recruit, advance and retain Latinx/Hispanic employees, thereby tapping into one of America’s fastest-growing consumer demographics.

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Transcript:

Intro: Hi, I'm John Iino and I'm Iveliz Crespo. Welcome to the Reed Smith podcast. Inclusivity Included: Powerful Personal Stories. In each episode of this podcast, our guests will share their personal stories, passions and challenges, past and present, all with the goal of bringing people together and learning more about others. You might be surprised by what we all have in common, inclusivity included.

Iveliz: Hello, everyone. I'm Iveliz Crespo co-host of Inclusivity Included. Welcome to the podcast as we celebrate Hispanic Heritage Month. It's only fitting that we focus today's episode highlighting nationally recognized Latino leaders and their efforts to create workplaces, law firms and a legal industry that is more reflective and inclusive of the Latino community. Joining us today as co-host, we have my Reed Smith colleague, Julia Lopez. Julia is a partner in our Life Sciences Health Industry group where she largely defends pharmaceutical and medical device companies in products liability litigation. In addition to being a highly regarded and sought after attorney, Julia is also the partner chair of UNIDOS, Reed Smith's Latinx and Hispanic employee resource group and also the National Finance Director for the Hispanic National Bar Association. Welcome, Julia.

Julia: Thank you, Iveliz and thank you for having me today.

Iveliz: Our guest today, Carlos Bollar is also highly regarded and nationally recognized attorney focusing his practice in environmental law. Carlos is a shareholder at Artur and Griner where he serves as a member of the firm's board of directors and co-chair of the personnel committee. Carlos is the president of the Hispanic National Bar Association and like Julia and I, Carlos is also a graduate of Rutgers Law School. I'm so thrilled to have Carlos here today. So welcome Carlos. We're so excited to have you.

Carlos: Thank you, Iveliz. It's a pleasure.

Julia: Thank you for joining us today. I thought we'd get started by telling your powerful personal story. So why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself?

Carlos: Sure. Like every Latino, it's always a little bit of a complicated story as to when you get asked where you're from or what your background is. I was born in Nyack, New York, raised in Gloucester township, New Jersey, which is in the southern half of the state. My mother is from the Dominican Republic and I still have a lot of family there and my father is from Cuba. Uh I currently live in Mount Laurel, New Jersey. Uh Happy to talk about my background more if you're interested in hearing that story. But um I'll defer to you.

Julia: Well, I'd love to hear a little bit more about your uh career trajectory and what motivated you to become an attorney.

Carlos: Sure. I think my story is a common one. When I was a young child, I knew I wanted to be an attorney, even though I didn't really understand what that meant. I assume I was an argumentative child. And so I heard a lot of people tell me that I, I should be a lawyer when I grow up. And for whatever reason, that just kind of stuck in my mind, it wasn't until much later as going through high school, going through college that I started to really appreciate what that meant and still given my family being what it was, we really didn't have much exposure to anyone in the legal community might. My understanding of the legal profession came from TV, from movies, that kind of thing. But as I, as I started to grow older, I started to really connect and appreciate topics like history, government, civics, and I started to realize uh what the world was and, and what the injustices were that were apparent back in the eighties and the nineties. And so it really just kind of solidified my instinct for wanting to go into the legal profession. It's always been a passion of mine and I persevered all the way through.

Julia: And Carlos, you know, I've had the pleasure of seeing you be installed as the president of the Hispanic National Bar Association just last week. And you and I are past presidents of the Hispanic Bar Association of New Jersey. And so I've had the pleasure of working with you and getting to know you, I would say over a decade. But for those folks in the audience, would you tell us a little bit about what the Hispanic National Bar Association is? What is its mission and, and why should we get involved?

Carlos: OK. Thank you for asking that. So, the Hispanic National Bar Association is exactly what it sounds like. It's a trade organization for Hispanic Latinx attorneys nationwide. We say that we represent the interests of over 66,000 Latino attorneys in the country. Uh We operate as a resource for all of our members, for all Latino attorneys to be able to utilize the tools that we bring to bear, the contacts, the network and all of our resources to help them advance in their career, whether it's in the private practice area, public interest law, corporate council, the judiciary, law students, whatever it may be. We also serve as the voice for nonlawyers on legal issues. The Latino commuity uh community throughout the country is often at a disadvantage when it comes to communicating their rights, communicating on issues that will affect them directly or disproportionately. And so we see ourselves as a voice for the voiceless to be able to speak out on those issues. That's the Hispanic National Bar Association. To drill down a little bit, most of our programming focuses on advancing the legal profession and support for that we provide uh all sorts of programs depending upon what area of the law you're in, depending upon where you are in your career. For, for many people, it's a resource to get jobs, for a lot of people, it's an opportunity to network and grow their book of business and for others. It's a, it's a platform from which to grow their career, whether it's to achieve the goal of becoming a general counsel or a partner in a law firm. What, what have you or, or getting on the bench. Um A lot of what we do also, you heard me mention about speaking out on behalf of the non attorney population. We do advocacy. We advocate directly with the politicians on Capitol Hill, whether it's the House of Representatives or the Senate. We also engage with the White House and advocate directly with them. We engage with all of them on substantive issues or whether or on issues like appointing uh a diverse judiciary or making executive appointments that reflect the demographics of the country. So all of those things are, are our mission. This is what we kind of set out for ourselves in an ambitious way in terms of why you should get involved. There are a lot of reasons and I'll start with one that I think is timely. We're all a little bit burned out, zoomed out. We're feeling disenchanted with uh circumstances. That's part of being an attorney or being a professional in COVID times, I don't think it's limited to the professional population. But um the there's all sorts of data being published now about people undergoing mental distress, uh having trouble coping with things and it's part of just part and parcel of being disconnected from your friends, your family, your, your business colleagues. And so the HMBA is it for a lot of our members and for me personally, it provides a, an outlet for doing something you're passionate about. It allows you to make a difference. It allows you to feel good about your extracurricular activities that perhaps you can change someone's life. Perhaps you can help advance them in their profession, perhaps it's advocating on an issue that's important to you personally. But, but it gives people a purpose, it gives people an incentive to invest and get out of bed and take off the sweatpants and actually go out there and um network and make connections. But that, that's one reason there are also the other reasons that we talked about. I think having that kind of resource to support you in your career is incredibly valuable. Being able to touch on the tools and um the resources that we provide, being able to build your network Um I think is, is priceless. Being able to uh expand your book of business, being able to connect with in-house counsel. I think all of those reasons are, are uh very, very tangible direct benefit, immediate benefit reasons for being involved with the HBA.

Julia: Thank you, Carlos for that really good overview. And, you know, I personally can attest to the fact that the HMB A does provide an invaluable resource for Latina lawyers. And we have a number of programs like the Latina Commission and our cle conferences and scholarships. But would you tell us a little bit about the Bollar 25 initiative?

Carlos: Sure. That is our program at base, it is our program to try to achieve 25 General Counsel, Fortune 500 companies by the year 2025. It, it's, it's a bigger program than that. We, our goal is to strengthen the pipeline of in-house Council. As I think the three of us know very well, the statistics on Latino lawyers throughout the country are dismal, especially when you compare them to the latest census population numbers. Those numbers get even worse when you're leading into in-house Counsel. When you're talking about General Counsel, it's, it's catastrophic. And so here we have large public corporations, fortune 500 companies. The demographics of the companies that, of the customers that they serve are reflective of, of our country. They're one in five people in this country uh are Latinx and it's gonna get to be one in four very, very soon. And so those companies are going to need to have the diverse perspectives to be able to serve their customer base. So that Bollar be Cinco program is designed it has multiple tiers for people, whether you're, you're gc ready, whether you're ready and you have the skills and the talent, the training to be a general counsel right now, we certainly have that class of individuals and, and the resources and training for those people. But we also have multiple tiers of experience where uh the in-house Council participants will grow in their careers and, and put themselves in the position. They learn exactly what they need, what they, what skills they have to go acquire, what contacts they need to rise the ladder in their companies and, and put themselves in a position to get promoted to general counsel or get hired by another company that will make them general counsel.

Julia: Great. Thank you. Thanks for that overview. I Bollar Beti Cinco Carlos and you know, I know you're up for the task this year having worked with you in the past. But would you tell us what are some of your priorities as you transition into your new role as, as the HMBA, you know, national president?

Carlos: Thank you for that question. I, you heard me mention motivating people to get engaged. I think II, I wanna um underline that issue because to me that is, that is a major, major problem with our profession, with the HMBA and just general engagement within your place of employment. Uh the goal is to get people back engaged with the HMPA for the last year and a half, we've had entirely programming done via virtual format, zooms conferences, whatever it may be. And so, and, and people have been enthusiastic participants. But when we do our networking events, we assume everybody uniformly believes that we need to get back in person, we need to get back engaged. That's, that's where the real magic happens with the HMBA. And so my goal, my primary goal is to get people excited again, get people back in person, get people talking and planning and, and working on the mission and the mission going forward. So that's task number one. task number two, there's turning to the nonlegal community while we've come a long way in the last 50 years. Uh I think that the issues being faced by the Latinx community in this country are just as critical and uh prejudicial today as they were decades ago. We know that the there's been an uptick in anti Latinx violence nationwide fueled in large part by political rhetoric at times. We know that all of the negative impacts of COVID-19 have been suffered in a disproportionate way by the Latino population, whether it's catching COVID, whether it's dying from COVID, whether it's uh vaccination rates or the economic impact for small businesses or for individuals, landlord tenant issues, all of those things, whatever the statistics show it's worse for the Latinos in the country. And we need to push and, and yell and advocate for change with the people who are in a position to make a difference, whether it's our elected officials or appointed officials or the White House, we need to uh be that voice. So, um that's a priority. We need to continue to be loud and heard on all of those issues. One of my big issues personally is diversity in the judiciary. It's been something that's been a passion, a passion of mine for a long time. I've advocated for that at the local level here in New Jersey and Eastern district of Pennsylvania. But when you pull back the lens and look at what this country, the way it's moving and the directions moving the situation as dire as it is here in the northeast gets even worse in, in most of the rest of the country. And so being able to push on jurisdictions that have done even worse in terms of a diverse judiciary appointments, those kinds of things, uh is something that, that I'm gonna prioritize going forward. So this White House has made it clear that diversity is a priority as they're making executive appointments and, and nominating people for the judiciary. But, and, and we're making progress along those lines. But with each wave of nominations, we might have a few Latinx nominees here and there, but we're continuing to fall behind because we're not nominating those candidates even at a rate that would keep pace with the changes in demographics. So that's a big issue. Uh there are certain jurisdictions that have never ever had a Latinx judge. For example, the entire eighth circuit has never had a Latinx judge and, and we need to change that. So that's an overview of some of the things that are most important to me. But we've got a lot to do and it's a pretty broad and intensive mission.

Julia: Yeah. Thank you, Carlos. You know, before I jump in, I'm going to ask you some questions about, you know, we talked a lot about the lack of representation of Latinos in the legal community. And I'm going to ask you to kind of opine on, you know, what, what might be contributing to that lack of representation. But before we do, you know, I want to highlight for the audience, you know, this is a full circle moment for me. And as I hear you talk about the value of networking of community. And again, this is a plug for those who are not involved in the HMBA to get involved. Um But again, I'm, I'm hearing you talk about the value of networking, of community. And I'm reminded of how we first met, you know, several years ago, I met Carlos at a networking event. And I remember being this scared law student, you know, at, at one of my first networking events, feeling really out of place, uh feeling like I shouldn't be there. I remember wearing this, you know, second hand thrifted suit and just wishing I was anywhere other than there. Right? I was surrounded by law school, law school colleagues of mine who just were better at networking, knew how to talk the talk, walk the walk and I didn't. Right? I was a, a new lawsuit and first and family to graduate high school and I bumped into Carlos at this networking event. And, you know, I think Carlos you saw through the angst, right? My nerves and, and, you know, you decided to, to invest in me and it was because of Carlos and the investment that he made that I ended up with my first paid internship in law school. And that internship led me to focus my career largely in civil rights and labor and employment discrimination, which ultimately, you know, I think led me here right to this role and, and the work that I do for diversity equity inclusion. And so it, it is a full circle moment for me and, and I, and it's amazing to me to hear you talk about the value of networking because I agree. Right? II, I will wholeheartedly agree that it, it has been very beneficial to my career. It's something that, you know, I'm, I'm very happy to have you here because, and here you talk about these things because I know that it's not just for the podcast that these things are important for you, right? You've spent your whole career advocating for the Latino community investing in people and helping bring them up and so just tremendous work and just so happy to have you here for that.

Carlos: Thank, thank you for that. And I will tell you, I have several things to say about that. Number one, I don't remember any of the negative things you're talking about yourself. I just remember a young, smart, confident law student that it was a pleasure to speak with and help in any way I could. I, I'll tell you that actually kind of gets to the core of what we do at the HMBA and what each of us do day in and day out. I, I remember my path through law school. I remember not knowing anything that I think everything I knew about law school I knew through TV. And I think I read the paper chase and that's it. I didn't know anything else and, and certainly didn't know anybody. Nobody. I didn't have any mentors who, who knew anything about the legal profession. And so I, I always think about what would I say to someone like myself if now that I know what I know now, right? Like what advice do I wish I would have had when I was in law school when I was a young attorney. And the beautiful thing about the HMBA and the beautiful thing about affinity bar Associations in general is it's filled with hundreds, if not thousands of people just like that. And that's the reason why we volunteer because we want to elevate our community, our colleagues, we, we know what it's like. We've, we've walked that walk and the goal is to, is to make things better and you do it day by day with individual interactions. It's not, it's not broad, sweeping changes that are somehow enacted. You know, we, we're not Congress. It's, it's through that kind of personal connection. So it, it's a pleasure uh to speak with you now, I, I don't know how many years ago that was, but you've, you've done extraordinarily well, and I'm very, very proud of you.

Julia: Thank you. And I'm not going to age myself by going into that. But uh I certainly, certainly, you know, thank you for your investment and, and I, I, you know, I can't stress enough how important, you know, it is to have those networks and so happy that, you know, you're at the helm right now of the HMBA, which is one of the largest networks, you know, of Latino professionals. So, you know, we talked a lot about the lack of representation and you mentioned, you know, the lack of representation of Latinos in the judiciary, but as well as throughout the legal community. And so, right, I think to have diverse judges, we need diverse lawyers. And so I guess I'd love to hear from you. What are your thoughts? What are some of the barriers or challenges that impact the Latino community and might be contributing to these lack of numbers that we're seeing, particularly when we compare the Latino population in the US to the makeup of attorneys and the demographics of attorneys. What might be contributing to that?

Carlos: It's a complicated answer and I don't tend to be a sociologist to be able to give you a professional answer. But I'll just tell you my personal observation as a Latino who has lived in this profession for more than two decades. It starts with the resources you have as a child. And I don't think anyone would argue that the Latinx community across the United States tend to be in a lower socio-economic status than non diverse individuals. That's just a very broad brush generalization based on aggregate data. And so when you have a lack of resources as a child, you are going to just have less opportunities to learn, to read, to advance academically, to achieve academic success, to do well in the sat those kinds of things. Many of our uh community deal with language barriers, whether it's a language barrier for ourselves or our parents, you might have a non diverse family that, that is reading to their Children in English or they're reading in English or they're talking about complicated topics at the dinner table in English. And to be able to do that as you grow up is, is a tremendous advantage. And when you take that away, I think it's hard for some people to imagine what it would be like to be prepared for a legal career. And then many of families in our community are, it's an immigrant story, whether it's us that came to this country or our parents that came to this country or someone in recent lineage. The, there's no question that when you come to this country as an immigrant, you've got a little catching up to do from an economic standpoint, from education, from language standpoint, all the things that we've been talking about. I never had tutors growing up. Right? Yeah, I never had any kind of resources that my Children have been able to have. And so that puts you behind the eight ball just leading up to law school. The, the second thing and I've touched on this a little bit. So I'm not gonna go into too much uh detail here, but it's connections in the legal community, being able to have those individuals who can guide you as to what you need to do in law school to be successful. It's, I think anybody who's gone to law school knows if you just show up at law school just with nothing other than a willingness to work hard, you're just, you're not gonna be as successful as somebody who shows up prepared and ready to go with, with the adequate training and, and background. The um I also think that all of those things, including those connections in legal community, they set you up for your first legal job, they set you up for your second legal job. And so it, it's harder to get to point the starting line when you graduate from law school, all those things uh impede the numbers of individuals to who will graduate from law school. And the last thing I'll say before these all things are all things that, that factor in before anyone even goes to law school is, is just the visibility. I think a lot of we, we do some pipeline outreach both at the HMBA and the HBA in New Jersey where we reach out to high school students or younger and tell them about the legal profession. Let them see lawyers that look like them and allow them to understand it. This is a viable path for them. There's a, there's a great power in creating your own personal identity off of the images that you see before you. If all you see are old white men as lawyers on TV or movies. Well, then you may not think that that's what you wanna do. And so I think those are all factors which get exacerbated after graduation from law school. It hinders you in that first job. It hinders your academic success, all of which we know will influence your ability to, to get in the right spot when you start your legal career. And the last thing I'll say is when you're a practicing lawyer. The ability to connect with mentors, supervisors with management of wherever you're working is critical to being able to rise in your profession. And if you're someone from, if you're an other, from a different culture, if you have different interests or hobbies or food or music or whatever it is, it, it, those things make it a little bit more challenging to connect with those individuals. Your people will like and promote the people who share common interests with. And if they've got that, that connection. So that's, those are the, those are many of the things that I see and feel that prevent some of the numbers from being where they need to be. And most of those are sociopolitical issues that, that can't be solved by a law firm trying to make things better for their uh their diverse lawyers.

Julia: Yeah, I mean, absolutely. I mean, and I hear you, you talked about a lot of different barriers that really compound on one another, right? The disproportionate poverty rates, the Latinos experience the language barriers, the lack of connection to the legal community. And I think one of the things that really resonated with me was that lack of visibility, right? How could you imagine what your future would be like if you've never seen that picture painted for you? Right? If you've only ever seen white people in the media portrayed as lawyers, how do you even begin to envision that future for yourself, you know, and, and that's something that really resonates with me. I used to do these, this series and since COVID, we haven't been able to do it. But I used to go through Camden City and, and talk to their high school students and do this presentation on, you know, how to become a lawyer, right? Because I think, you know, there's such technical pieces that, you know, you got to hit people early on to get them thinking about, ok, what are the ways that I can set myself up for success? And you know, there are a lot of gaps in, in, in, in the education realms and there's a lot of gaps, particularly when that, you know, that the people are coming from, you know, poor cities. And so we used to do these the series and I remember, you know, talking to the students and them being so surprised that there were so many steps, right, that they didn't even realize that you needed to go to law school in addition to college, right? And these are important things that, you know, we need to kind of communicate and get, get people invested early um to build up that pipeline. You know, you talked a lot um recently just, you know, I heard you recently speak at our, our Diversity Summit. So I appreciate that. And in one of the prep calls, you said something really, you know, really interesting. You said you know, in many ways we're preaching to the choir here and for the for the audience that choir were supporters, right? People advocating for these issues, members of the Hispanic Bar Association or of other affinity based groups that are advocating for diversity and inclusion in the profession. And, and you mentioned, you know, law law firms can't fix it all. But I'm curious if your experience, right, as being a lawyer for, you know, more than a decade, more than two decades, right? Doing this work, what, what do you think works? Right? How can law firms support the community and move beyond this idea of performative allyship, right? Where we're only doing this for publicity, but how do we systemically change organizations or law firms to create spaces where Latinos can come and work and grow and be successful?

Carlos: That's a great question and, and one that law firms and companies have been trying to answer for a long time, but I'll, I'll do my best here. A the you can only go so far motivated by the interest of it's the right thing to do or this is this needs to be done for societal reasons or whatever it may be. I mean, for those of us on this call and probably many of the people who download this podcast, this is a way of life for us, we see what the struggles are to get where we are and we want to change that because of that personal connection, but for most of the non diverse population, they kind of get it. They, they understand that this is, this is something that needs to be done. They're, they're not against diversifying the profession. They're just not for it. They don't show up for work every day thinking about it. And so it's in, in order to really get those individuals and, and unfortunately most of those, most of the people who can affect change within an institution are older white men who feel that way. So the way I have found it to be effective to kind of get through those people to the extent you can is to make the so-called business case for it. If you are on the litigation side of things, you gotta appreciate that when you roll in for a jury trial, you're gonna have a diverse jury box. You're gonna, one out of every five jurors is gonna be Latino. If you go strictly by statistics. It's gonna be the numbers for the judiciary. You may have Latino judges, you're gonna have Latino witnesses, you're gonna have Latino issues that pop up in the case or words, you're gonna have it, it's our job at its core as lawyers is to persuade people that, that our clients right about things. And the way you, you persuade people is by making those personal connections. And if you don't, if your legal team doesn't look like what the jury box looks like it's gonna be harder to do that. You're creating an obstacle for yourself, uh, on the non litigation side of things. And if you're dealing with personal services, wills and the states personal injury, whatever it may be, labor and employment, you've, you've got to understand that those demographics are your client base. If, if your client base is predominantly white, well, you're missing out on a massive chunk of the population that can be your clients. And when you're dealing with corporate clients, these are major companies that have diverse customer bases or they want to grow their diverse customer bases. And so they are insisting upon diverse legal team. So this is the way of the future. It just that, that's how, that's, that's the legal profession, legal profession goes the way the country's demographics go and, and you either embrace it and seize those opportunities for yourself and for your firm or you don't and you're gonna, you're gonna get left behind. It's, it's not that different from technology as technology evolves, you keep pace with the technology. Otherwise you're, you're gonna be a less effective lawyer and that's, that's at its core, what a lack of diversity is gonna, is gonna do for you. You're gonna be left behind. And um so that's, to me, that's, that's the case you make to the people who are ambivalent or who, who aren't plugged in and you've got to have them at the table if you're not having those people, the practice group chairs, the, the managing partners, the, uh, board of directors, all those people who are making decisions in law firms involved in diverse issues, then what's the point? You're just kind of speaking to, preaching to the choir, you're speaking, you know, if a tree falls in the woods, is it, there's even fall? Does anybody hear it? So, uh, you've got to have those people engaged.

Julia: No. Absolutely. So, so before, um I ask you my last question, Carlos, you know, I do wanna thank you um, and touch upon something that you and Iveliz both talked about and, and I'm gonna paraphrase justice Sonia Sotomayor because she says she has said something along the lines of you cannot imagine what you cannot see and, and really, you know, that's what we're talking about here today and that's the, that's what you're doing, I think at the national level. That's what you've done in New Jersey. Um Whether it's, you know, serving on the board of directors at your firm or serving as the national president or mentoring a young attorney, uh like Iveliz or young law student. You know, I just want to thank you for doing that for blazing those trails for the Latino legal community. But so let me ask you one last question as to wrap up for today. We started off by noting that this month we're celebrating Hispanic Heritage Month. What would you like our listeners in the legal community to know about Hispanic Heritage Month?

Carlos: It's kind of a loaded question because I have mixed feelings about Hispanic Heritage Month, first of all, and this is just my personal opinion. I think it's garbage that we only get 15 days in September, 15 days in October. Nobody knows when it starts, nobody knows when it ends. Everybody else gets a full month and, and I think that's, that's junk and you should change that. That being said, I also think it's good to have these discussions in Hispanic Heritage Month and, and to use it as an opportunity to enhance the dialogue. But Latino history is American history and vice versa. As long as there have been Europeans on this continent, there have been indigenous people on this continent much, much longer than that. And people were speaking Spanish on this continent long before there was a United States of America. And so it's, it's, we should be talking about these issues year round. We shouldn't wait for a window of random days in the fall to talk about them and, and we can't forget about them. The last thing about Hispanic Heritage Month, I've seen this. So I apologize if it's, if it gets a little bit of strength, a lot of organizations and institutions try and, and pay lip service. I, I forget what the phrase is. You say, performative, I can't remember that phrase.

Julia: allyship, performative, allyship,

Carlos: performative, allyship, they pay lip service to, to Hispanic Heritage Month by, by just having some very shallow programming and, and in doing so it can get offensive if they, if they, if they don't do it in, in a smart way. I've seen it where the institution has events that combine traditions and music and, um, clothing and food from multiple different, uh, countries in Latin America. And it's, it's ridiculous and it gets laughable and it confuses Children and uh it's, it's, it, you gotta just be careful about that. You gotta, if you're gonna have program, you've gotta be thoughtful about it. And, you know, it makes me think back. I remember one law firm had was publicizing and advertising What they've done for, for example, Black History Month. And one of the things they were proudest of is they, they created um uh viewing to watch Black Panther for their uh their attorneys. And I, and I just thought, you know, that is just, they're just missing the point here. You've got, you've got to have substantive programming. You've got to allow for the Latinos in your institution to engage and talk about issues that are important to them. So utilize Hispanic Heritage Month as a resource as a, as a vehicle for launching the discussion. But keep that discussion going in a thoughtful way year round.

Iveliz: No, and thank you for that Carlos and that's a perfect way to end, right? Is being intentional, right? If we're going to aim to be inclusive. If we're going to aim to support a diverse and multicultural workforce, then we need to be intentional and we need to be culturally competent in our inclusion efforts. And so that's a perfect way to end. And, you know, I really want to thank you Carlos and I really want to thank Julia one for joining us on this podcast. But two for all that you two are doing right to create a more inclusive and diverse legal profession and, and just broader, you know, global landscape, labor landscape, right? Uh So we're very thankful to have you and really appreciate you joining us today.

Carlos: Thank you for having me and Iveliz, I want to say this is the second Hispanic heritage month event item that, that I was invited to participate in, in Reed Smith and, and I know that Reed Smith has invested in the Hispanic National Bar Association both monetarily, but, but more importantly with the sweat equity people from the firm and allowing you all to participate and, and that means a lot and that goes a long way. And so Reed Smith is certainly doing a great job by, by lending us the, the brilliant young talent we have.

Iveliz: Well, thank you, Carlos.

Carlos: Thank you.

Outro: Inclusivity Included is a Reed Smith production. Our producer is Ali McCardell. This podcast is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Play, Stitcher, Pod Bean, and Reedsmith.com.

Disclaimer: This podcast is provided for educational purposes. It does not constitute legal advice and is not intended to establish an attorney-client relationship, nor is it intended to suggest or establish standards of care applicable to particular lawyers in any given situation. Prior results do not guarantee a similar outcome. Any views, opinions, or comments made by any external guest speaker are not to be attributed to Reed Smith LLP or its individual lawyers.

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