Red Nation, Blue Nation (with Michael Podhorzer)

How to Save a Country

Political pundits often discuss the differences between red and blue states in the US. But political strategist Michael Podhorzer argues that this framework drastically understates the true nature of the divisions in our country. We have always been more like two separate nations—tenuously united under the Constitution. These “red and blue nations,” as he calls them, are divided by geography, by political economy, and by different views toward religion and even toward democracy itself.

In this week’s episode, Podhorzer—former political director of the AFL-CIO—talks with Felicia and Michael Tomasky about the historical origins of this split, the ramifications for electoral strategy, and the role the Supreme Court has played in hardening these divisions.

“They don't actually hear cases anymore,” Podhorzer says. “They look for opportunities to legislate. And in fact, I think that's really the frame we need to think about the court now: It's the only functioning legislative body in the country.”

The trio also discusses the 2024 election, the Federalist Society, and the importance of unions.

Presented by the Roosevelt Institute, The New Republic, and PRX. Generous funding for this podcast was provided by the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation and Omidyar Network. Views expressed in this podcast do not necessarily reflect the opinions and beliefs of its funders.

You can find transcripts and related resources for every episode at howtosaveacountry.org.