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Your Five Favorite Episodes of 2024
Manage episode 457584343 series 3363466
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You’re listening to Burnt Toast!
We are Virginia Sole-Smith and Corinne Fay, and we’re dropping in today with your Burnt Toast Podcast Year In Review.
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Episode 174 Transcript
Virginia
It has been a really great year for the podcast, wouldn’t you agree, Corinne?
Corinne
I would agree.
Virginia
Yes. I don’t know that we celebrated this properly at the time, but a few months ago, we actually passed 1 million downloads this year, which is wild to me.
Corinne
Honestly, I can’t think about that too hard.
Virginia
Then I will not tell you that we are now at 1.32 million, as of this recording.
Corinne
My gosh! It’s wild.
Virginia
I know it’s really cool. I feel super proud of the podcast. I love making it with you.
Corinne
So we are going to take this opportunity to chat about listeners’ five favorite episodes of the year—plus the least popular episode!
Virginia
The poor, unloved episode.
Before we dive in, I feel like I need to own up that this is a very imperfect science I used to rank the episodes. Since we do a mix of paywalled and unpaywalled episodes, I can’t just go by total download numbers. That’s because the paywalled episodes—Corinne, this will be reassuring to you, as someone who’s primarily on paywalled episodes—have lower number of downloads on these. So the million downloads is not all you.
Corinne
Yeah. And it’s a million downloads across all episodes, right?
Virginia
Yes. This is episode 174 so I think that number, the 1.3 million, is like, current to 170 or something like that.
But I did look at which episodes were downloaded the most for the year, and then I also looked at which episodes the paywall was most effective—meaning that you all paid to listen. Because that tells us a lot about is this episode striking a nerve so much that you’re like, “yes, I will pay $7 or for Extra Butter folks, $99 to listen to this episode.” So I think that’s pretty indicative of its popularity.
Corinne
It’s always fun to see what people are excited about. And where we sometimes fail with writing headlines.
Virginia
We work so hard on the headlines, and sometimes I think we’ve really nailed it and then we have not at all.
I will also say I’m exempting from the data last week’s episode, as of this recording. The Tyranny of the Millennial Camisole episode came out last week. It’s not doing great, but it’s only had a few days and I don’t feel it’s fair to judge it yet! But you all should go listen to it, because it’s such a good episode.
I feel that people are missing out by not hearing us discuss camisoles and horizontal stripes and whatever else we talked about in that episode.
Corinne
It’s about a lot more than just camisoles! Although camisoles were a big part.
Virginia
They were and I think maybe in my headline writing, I over-emphasized that. I apologize, but if you’ve ever worn Spanx, that episode is for you.
2024’s Least Popular Podcast Episode!
Corinne
Okay, here we go. We are starting with the least popular episode. This is the one that has the fewest downloads and had the fewest people paying to listen.
Do you remember this episode?
Virginia
I mean, I’ll admit I had to open it up and be like, which episode was this?
Corinne
Oh, interesting. It’s from July of this year.
Virginia
Do we think everyone was just on summer vacation?
Corinne
It’s definitely possible.
Virginia
July is, historically, usually a pretty low month overall for newsletters and podcasts in general, I think because of summer travel schedules.
Corinne
But I will say—the question that the headline is referring to, the fatphobic roller coaster question, was memorable for me.
Virginia
Yeah, no, absolutely. It was from a woman who was going to amusement parks and feeling really sad she couldn’t ride on roller coasters.
Corinne
It was a good question.
Virginia
I think our answer was also pretty good. Folks can click through and listen to that. I think maybe the headline is a little niche? If you haven’t currently struggled with roller coasters or socks, that might be why it didn’t speak to you.
But I also want to say: If dismantling anti-fatness is important to you, these kind of mundane issues are the work. It’s not always the sexy stuff. Sometimes it is totally roller coasters and socks. Also Corinne on socks is just a great rant, guys.
Corinne
Oh, my God.
Virginia
That’s also worth listening to!
Corinne
Well, yeah, I also think if you like the episodes where there are deeper questions and we’re thinking about the nuance of fatphobia and what do we give up when we decide to stop dieting. I think this is good one, and you might want to listen if you missed it.
Virginia
Yeah, agreed, agreed. And we’re not judging you, but a little bit we are, that you blew past some of our finest work.
Okay, let’s now go through what you guys did like, and we’ll go from least to most, right?
Top 5 Most Popular Episodes of 2024
Corinne
We’re going from least most popular to most most popular.
So the Number 5 Most Popular Episode is: Did Virginia get divorced over butter?
Corinne
How do you feel about your divorce being one of the most popular episodes?
Virginia
I feel zero surprise about it, and I am not going to answer that question here. People can listen to the episode and find out, what I think about it.
Corinne
It’s another good episode. What else did we talk about in that episode?
Virginia
We talked also a lot about how the newsletter works.
Corinne
The making of the sausage, how the sausage is made.
Virginia
We did talk about the weirdness of the Internet having a parasocial relationship with one’s personal life, so if that’s an interesting topic, it’s pretty juicy.
And people have told us they really like the process stories. People are interested in how we make the podcast and the newsletter. I think I’m always interested in that for other people.
4. Can I want to lose weight for a good reason?
Corinne
This is another, like, mail baggy episode. And I do think that question is kind of perennially interesting.
Virginia
It’s definitely another nuanced and chewy question, which we really love to do. But there are some other lighter questions in that episode: Is it okay to feed your children paleo waffles? My thoughts on single mom travel. Are there any comfortable jeans?
Corinne
The third most popular episode—which I’m actually a tiny bit surprised about. I thought, honestly, it would be higher—was:
3. When Fat Influencers Get Thinner.
Virginia
Oh yeah, this was a juicy one.
Corinne
This is one where we talked about fat influencers losing weight because of Ozempic.
Virginia
I wonder if it would have been even higher if we had name-checked somebody in the headline.
Corinne
Maybe?
Virginia
That’s something—as we’ll see when we get to number one—that is sometimes effective. But it’s tricky. I think one thing we’ve realized about the podcast is that y’all really like us doing criticism and analysis of Internet culture as it intersects with diet culture and anti-fatness. So there are quite a few influencer episodes that have done well. But because Internet culture is as vast as it is, often these people are kind of niche. If you’re not already following plus size influencers, or you’re not already following kid food influencers or whatever, you might not know the specific players.
So I think that’s why we didn’t include the names. Because we were like, will everyone know these people?
Corinne
And also this episode wasn’t just about one person, it was about a wider cultural phenomenon.
Virginia
Yes. It was the trend of influencers using Ozempic or Wegovy to lose weight, and suddenly, kind of radically changing the way they talk about weight and body acceptance and health journeys.
Corinne
This is one of the episodes I was most stressed about recording, just because it feels so hard to get right. I remember when it came out, I was just like, oh, I kind of hope no one listens.
Virginia
Unfortunately, many people listened. Thousands of people listened, Corinne.
But what I always want to push back on is that the scolding we always get is “you’re tearing down other women,” or “you’re being mean girls.” And I think that is actually a very anti-feminist understanding of this work. We have to hold other women accountable when they are not being allies to other women and otherwise marginalized folks.
And specifically, this episode—and I think pretty much all our influencer episodes—focus on white ladies with a lot of privilege who are not using that privilege responsibly. That criticism is really important right now. And it’s not being a mean girl, it’s being a cultural critic and someone who analyzes diet culture and is able to identify it. And sometimes women create diet culture. So we have to say that.
But I get why you were nervous about it. People are going to be meaner to me than to you, though, if it helps. You’re the more likable one!
Corinne
Oh, my God. I don’t actually remember there being a lot of pushback after that episode came out. But maybe you got all of it.
Virginia
I don’t either but I also don’t go on Reddit very often.
Corinne
Oh, yeah, no, me neither. At least not for that.
Virginia
That’s a self-care measure for us. We will not be doing that, and you don’t need to send us anything you find there!
Okay, the next two are kind of like one and two. You can make arguments for which is one and which is two. But what I’m calling number 2 was our far and away most downloaded episode of the year:
2. Is “Mom Rage” Actually “Marriage Rage?”
This was my interview with Lyz Lenz about her new book, This American Ex-Wife. It has almost 28,000 downloads, which is easily 10,000 downloads more than a free episode usually gets. So it was off to the races.
Corinne
Wow. It was a great episode.
Virginia
It was a great episode! I mean, it definitely also touched a nerve. I think the comment section got kind of spicy. Anytime we do divorce and marriage topics, we hear from people who really like their marriages and feel personally attacked.
Corinne
Totally makes sense.
Virginia
And I’m not saying they need to get divorced, but they sometimes seem to think that’s what we’re saying? But is great, and it is a really fantastic conversation.
And it’s interesting too, because, you know, I first had Lyz on the podcast to talk about diet culture and divorce well before my own divorce. And then she came back, and we were two divorced ladies together. It was kind of a fun little evolution.
Corinne
I love that. And the number one most popular episode of the year is…
1. The Curious Evolution of Emily Oster
Virginia
Drumroll for that. This one really blew up. The free preview for this has also over 25,000 downloads. The full paywalled episode is less, but it did convert a ton of people who wanted to hear the whole thing. And that is again, above average numbers for us.
Corinne
Yeah, that’s also really interesting, because that one is from just last month. Whereas the last two were from February.
Virginia
Yes. I mean, usually the older an episode is, the more downloads it has, because new people discovering the podcast often go back and download old episodes. But Emily Oster was an immediate hit.
And despite everything I said about feeling very strongly that we are not being mean girls, and we are culture critics, and this is valid work— this was the one I was the most nervous about.
Corinne
Well, and you know her.
Virginia
I have a lot of respect for Emily. But there have been some weird right turns taken, and I felt it was important to talk about it. So that is all in that episode.
Corinne
I’m kind of surprised that the Kids Eat In Color episode isn’t on here.
Virginia
If we were only going to do top 5 paywalled episodes, it would have been number five.
Corinne
Oh, gotcha.
Virginia
That is another good one. But since I wanted to make sure to include at least one of the free ones as well, I did some very scientific number crunching… in the 10 minutes before we recorded this episode.
Corinne
Are there any episodes you’re surprised aren’t in the top five?
Virginia
I don’t think so. I mean, I’ve been tracking all the way along that this influencer analysis thing was really taking off. And two divorce things on this list doesn’t surprise me at all, because that’s been a huge driver of engagement.
I’m definitely sad for fatphobic roller coasters being the least popular episode. That’s where I think the heart of this work is. And then the more gossipy topics like public figures and divorce—that’s what gets the clicks and the downloads. So the cynical journalist in me is like, well, of course, But we’re not going to stop doing the fat phobic roller coaster episodes.
Corinne
Yeah, I think they’re super important.
Virginia
We really need them. So I encourage everyone: If you love an Emily Oster type episode, please go listen to that one too. Because it’s all part of the work.
Corinne
It’s really fun to answer listener questions too.
Virginia
Yes. I guess the less cynical part of me understands, though—because I think the mailbag question episodes are really fun but they are more random. So if you’re a newer listener, they feel a little inside baseball. It’s you and me hanging out and chatting, and it feels like we’re having a conversation with all the Burnt Toasties, which I love. But I can get why they’re harder to break into. So that’s something we might think about? How to make them more accessible?
Corinne
I think it’s also harder to write a hooky headline for those episodes. If it’s five different topics, then what do you put up top that will get people to listen?
Virginia
That is always a little bit of an experiment. How to frame it exactly? Maybe we have to make sure to include an influencer question in those, just to get it in the headline. I’m sorry it’s clickbait, but it’s what you all respond to!
Butter
Corinne
Let’s do the the last butter of 2024! No pressure.
Virginia
That does feel like pressure, right? What do you have?
Corinne
Okay, well, I feel mine is like just a little anti-climactic, because I think I feel like everyone’s already gonna know about this. But I just read the book James by Percival Everett. It really is as good as everyone is saying. I really enjoyed it. I plowed right through it.
I mean, as you probably know, it’s a retelling of Huck Finn. So it just has that adventure story and a plot that just kind of carries you right along. But it’s just a good read. So I definitely recommend that if people haven’t read it. I listened to the audiobook, which I thought was really good.
Virginia
Oh, nice. I’m excited to know that. I tried to make my book club read it, and they shot it down. We did read Colored Television by Danzy Senna who happens to be his wife. It also came out this year. And I did have a moment of like, I’m glad we read that one, because James is the one that really blew up. And Colored Television is also excellent.
And it’s probably complicated to be two bestselling authors in a marriage, both releasing big books in the same year! I don’t know. It seems that seems like something! I would love to know more about how that works. But I do want to read James too.
Corinne
I don’t know why your book group shot it down, but my mom was telling me about it, and I was also resisting it, and then it just like, popped up on Libby, and I was like, Oh, fine. And then I I did really like it.
Virginia
Well, I have a knee-jerk reaction to not wanting to read books by and about men, which is something I can look at. I suppose. And I think the whole Huckleberry Finn retelling makes it feel like a school book versus a fun read.
Corinne
Yeah, I could see that. I mean, it is like, about slavery…
Virginia
It’s not an uplifting topic, but it does sound like a really incredible book.
Corinne
All right, what’s your Butter?
Virginia
I’m also going to do a culture rec, because something else we learned this year is that the culture-based Butters are the ones we stand by, versus when I tell you about something I bought at Target. So I’m not recommending anything from Target.
I’m just going to do a Butter for Somebody Somewhere. It is the most delightful, beautiful little show. And I’m sad it’s ending after three seasons, but they are three perfect little jewel box seasons, and if you somehow have not experienced the magic that is Bridget Everett, I don’t know this is what you should do with the rest of your winter break. You should go binge watch it.
Corinne
Absolutely. I haven’t watched Season Three yet. I’m also like…I’m not, like, a musical person, so sometimes I’m like, can we move along there?
Virginia
But did you see the reel of her singing Janis Joplin on Jimmy Fallon?
[Post-recording note: Virginia knows she talked about this show and shared this reel just last week and SHE DOES NOT CARE.]
Corinne
Yes, she’s incredible. Like, no hate. At all.
Virginia
They called it a karaoke performance. It was insulting. That was like a stadium arena level performance. I’m in love with her.
Corinne
She’s really cool, and the show is incredible. I just sometimes am fast-forwarding through the songs.
Virginia
I understand. It is always that thing where, like, you have this really talented actor who’s also an incredible singer. So you write in a plot line where they get to sing a lot, even though it’s maybe not totally in line with the episodes. But I’m like, so here for it, because I just find her so incredible. And the friend group is so great too!
Corinne
All the characters are really good.
Virginia
We are gonna miss that one, Bridget. I can’t wait to see what you do next. Iconic fat rep.
Oh, and I won’t do spoilers since you haven’t seen Season Three yet, but there was an episode early in season three that texted me and was like, “I’m really nervous they’re gonna go in a weight loss plot line direction,” and then they don’t. And I actually think it’s one of the best episodes I’ve seen about being a fat person at a doctor’s office.
Corinne
Ooh.
Virginia
It’s very understated, because the whole show is very understated. It’s pretty nuanced, but they really show the whole experience of feeling vulnerable, when the gown doesn’t fit, and the way the doctor talks to her and all of that. And it’s so honest and well done. And her weight has never been part of the story, nor should it be. But the fact that they still wove it in as a part of life. It just is exquisitely done.
Corinne
Wow, that’s amazing. Well, that makes me really excited to watch.
Virginia
All right. Well, I just want to say a big thank you to all of our listeners. This has been a really, really great year making the podcast, and I’m excited to see what we do in 2025 How will we top these top five?
Corinne
Oh God, hard to say! I’m like, this means next year is 2 million downloads?
Virginia
Well, who knows. It could totally drop off, or it could blow up, and be at 5 million? Dream big, Corinne!
Corinne
Okay.
Virginia
Thanks for doing this with me.
Corinne
Yeah, thanks for doing this with me, and thanks to all our listeners.
The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith (follow me on Instagram) and Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, and Big Undies—subscribe for 20% off!
The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.
Our theme music is by Farideh.
Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.
Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet, body liberation journalism!
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