Lt. Col. (Ret.) Rochelle Kimbrell ’98 - Dare to Dream

THE LONG BLUE LEADERSHIP PODCAST

As a child, Lt. Col. (Ret.) Rochelle Kimbrell ’98, dreamt that one day she would defy gravity, taking her rightful place in the sky among the stars.----more----

SUMMARY

Rochelle Kimbrell shared her journey of growing up as a young black girl in a small town in Colorado who dreamed of becoming a fighter pilot. Despite being told she couldn't or shouldn't pursue this goal, she developed a strong work ethic and passion for flying from a young age.

She meticulously planned her path, gaining leadership experience in Civil Air Patrol and excelling academically to earn an appointment to the Air Force Academy. Kimbrell overcame challenges like failing a class by changing majors and learning from mistakes.

As one of the first female fighter pilots, Kimbrell faced obstacles like lack of proper gear and medical issues. She discussed the difficulties of balancing pregnancy/motherhood with her flying career due to changing policies.

After 13 years of active duty service, Kimbrell transitioned to the reserves and pursued public speaking and entrepreneurship. This allowed her to find fulfillment in empowering and mentoring others, especially young minorities.

OUR FAVORITE QUOTES

"My parents always feel this to just just go out and chase our dreams and follow our dreams, and, you know, to forge our own paths and to be strong."

"I think we plan our vacations really well. But I don't think we plan our lives really well."

"You've got to have a plan for your life. Like yes, you can change course 100%. But you've got to have first vision, so that you can start working towards it and figure out what it's going to take."

"You learn that there are many paths that can lead there. And so it was it was okay. And that everybody's gonna have a setback."

"I want to impact people's lives. I want to empower people to be their best selves."

- Lt. Col. (Ret.) Rochelle Kimbrell '89

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CHAPTERS

00:00: Introduction and Background

06:34: Overcoming Doubts and Breaking Barriers

25:43: Challenges Faced by Female Fighter Pilots

32:50: The Importance of Mentorship

49:33: Dare to Dream and Pursue Your Goals

SOME TAKEAWAYS

- Believe in yourself and pursue your dreams, even when others doubt you.

- Having a plan and being willing to pivot can lead to unexpected opportunities.

- Overcoming challenges and setbacks is part of the journey to success.

- Representation matters - being a role model can inspire others to pursue their own dreams. Female fighter pilots faced challenges in terms of camaraderie, gear, and facilities.

- Balancing motherhood and a career as a fighter pilot was challenging.

- Mentorship is important, and mentors don't have to look like you.

- It's important to dare to dream and pursue your goals, despite obstacles and failures.

- Planning your life and having a clear vision of where you want to go is crucial.

COL. KIMBRELL'S BIO

Retired U.S. Air Force Lt. Col. Rochelle Kimbrell is a charismatic trailblazer whose road to becoming the US military’s first Black female fighter pilot started when she was a little girl growing up in Parker, Colorado. She had a dream that was beyond the imagination of most. In a time before women were allowed to fly fighter aircraft and women being in combat was literally against the law, those boundaries were no deterrent for Rochelle. Powered by a dream, Rochelle crafted a plan to achieve this dream and the journey to success through failure took commitment. The story of her journey is legendary and can ignite a flame in any individual or team and challenge them to dare to dream again. Rochelle not only broke several glass ceilings in the F-16 community, her experiences transformed into operations on the ground and then on to the highly technological remotely piloted aircraft. Rochelle has over 2100 hours piloting military aircraft and over 975 combat and combat support hours.

Rochelle retired from the Air Force in 2020 after almost 22 years of service. She is a full time public servant pouring her time and energy back into her community. She volunteers as an orientation pilot in the Civil Air Patrol, shares her story and teaches leadership and success principles to individuals and organizations across the country through her Dare To Dream (Dare-2-Dream.com) speaking platform and is also a full time mother to 2 amazing boys and wife to an awesome husband.

- Copy credit: AthenasVoiceUSA.com

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TRANSCRIPT

OUR SPEAKERS

Our guest, Lt. Col. (Ret.) Rochelle Kimbrell '98 | Our host is Naviere Walkewicz '99

Naviere Walkewicz
Col. Kimbrell, welcome to Long Blue Leadership and thank you for being here today.

Rochelle Kimbrell
Thank you so much, Naviere. That’s an awesome intro and I’m really excited to here today talking with my alma mater.

Naviere Walkewicz 00:49

That's right. Well, that's my pleasure. And you know, I think it's always especially wonderful when I get to speak to someone that I was at the Academy with at the same time. So, we’re kind of going back in the day. And we can say that because, you know, we're amongst friends here. But this is a great opportunity to share with our listeners a little bit about you and your journey. So, we're really excited.

Lt. Col. (Ret.) Rochelle Kimbrell 01:08

Awesome, excited to be here.

Naviere Walkewicz 01:09

Well, let's go back in time a little bit. Let's go back to you as a little girl. Can you share a little bit with our listeners about where you grew up, what your family life was like? Take us on the journey.

Lt. Col. (Ret.) Rochelle Kimbrell 01:21

Take you on the journey. All right. So absolutely. So, my family actually migrated here from Guyana in South America. So, my dad moved out here for college, went to Howard, and then he was getting his Ph.D. in Indiana — Purdue — when I was born. So, I'm the youngest of four. And we moved around a little bit, and then we ended up settling in Colorado. So, I actually grew up in Parker, which is only about an hour down the road, 45 minutes down the road from the Academy. And, you know, we grew up in a time where — Parker now is a thriving metropolis, but it was a really small horse town. Growing up where we were one of two Black families that I was aware of growing up, and I was the only Black person in my class from kindergarten all the way through graduation. So, it was an interesting time; it was an interesting town. But I'm an animal fanatic. I grew up showing horses and showing dogs and you know, when I tell people about where I grew up, and I talk about, you know, Parker had one stoplight and Main Street had a saloon with still saloon doors on it. We used to ride our horses down to the candy store, the Mountain Man Fruit and Candy store, and there was a hitching post outside. And people were like, “You're from Montana?” I'm like, “No, no, no, no, just up the road about 45 minutes.” So, a very different place back then. And my parents just being immigrants, you know, they knew that America was kind of the place where you come to make your dreams come true, the land of opportunity, they believed that you do it through education, and if you were educated, then you could go out and achieve whatever you wanted to. And so they always feel this — to just go out and chase our dreams and follow our dreams, and, you know, to forge our own paths and to be strong and to go for it, you know. They knew that they didn't have all the answers, but that they were out there, and that there was nothing that was stopping us other than ourselves. So, they always fostered that in us growing up, which I really appreciate. So, when I came out of left field with the crazy notion of being a fighter pilot, they had no idea. Military life? What that was like? What that was about? But they said, you know, go after it. You know, figure it out and go do.

Naviere Walkewicz 03:47

That's amazing. I mean, it sounds like, just right from the get-go, you had such wonderful role models of not being afraid, right, and taking the chance at the dream and pursuing things that are greater and bigger and whatever we want to achieve. Maybe you can expand on that. Because from horses to fighter jets, you know, it's like, “Wait, that's a big leap.” Let's talk about how did you know that you wanted to become a fighter pilot.

Lt. Col. (Ret.) Rochelle Kimbrell 04:11

So, from about kindergarten, I wanted to be an astronaut. And I was always just fascinated with space and the stars and the sky and weightlessness and speed and defying gravity. Like, it was all just really interesting to me. And I just wanted to be up there among the stars from day one. And so in kindergarten, I wrote away to NASA and asked, you know, what do I have to do - on that line paper - you know, and said, “How do I become an astronaut?” and they sent back a ginormous package of huge pamphlets and books and things that I never got all the way through. But, you know, kind of laying that process out of what that would look like and all the things that you can do and learn. And as I continue to learn about it, watch a little bit of it, learn you know what that was like, somewhere along the way I found out that not all astronauts get to go to space. I didn't want to do all that training and maybe not get picked, right? So, I think, you know, as I've dissected my life, I kind of go back and I think about, you know, being picked and maybe being, you know, that minority child not always being picked first. I think that was one of my stepping stones to saying, you know, if it really comes down to you've done all the training, and somebody still has to choose you, I wasn't confident that I would be chosen to go to space. So somewhere along the road I learned about fighter jets, you know. We had Academy kids that used to come down to our church, and they would sing over Christmas, and then they'd spend a couple of days with you, and then go back — our church had that program. So, over time I'd heard some of them talking about being fighter pilots, and I kind of probed him, you know, hid around the corner, and listened to what they're talking about — being, you know, fighter pilots. And I was like, “That sounds pretty cool, like fast and jets, and it's up there in the sky; you're still defying gravity. I want to do that.” And so that's where that kind of passion came from. And, you know, the animals were just, you know, animals are great companions. So, I think just growing up in the in those scenarios, they were comforting. It was challenging, it was fun. And I think it really is kind of along the same lines, you know, you kind of set your mind out and you're gonna go do something that's challenging, but it fills that need for you. And that's what flying became for me further into my life.

Naviere Walkewicz 06:35

That helps explain the move from horses to the stars, and then into the cockpit of a fighter jet. So when you said your parents and your family was really supportive of you going to the Academy, did you know the Academy was the route you're gonna take?

Lt. Col. (Ret.) Rochelle Kimbrell 06:49

Absolutely. So, once I decided I wanted to be a fighter pilot. My dad got me a flight lesson when I was 14, a discovery flight. And that just really sealed the deal. I mean, just being in control of a little Cessna up there, 14 years old, you know, you take off and the world is your oyster. It's a whole different perspective. It’s just a different view of life in general. And that's how I feel about flying to this day. I love it. It's the ultimate freedom. It's amazing. So, from there, I kind of reverse engineered my life. I said, “How do I become a fighter pilot?” Because my parents didn't have the answers. And so I started asking the questions. And I really looked at it as this is the goal: to get to the Air Force Academy, because they had the most pilot training slots. So, I looked around, I didn't learn a lot about ROTC, I didn't learn a lot about it. Because I learned that they didn't have a lot of slots at the time. I never heard the word Reserve, I never really heard the word Guard. So that was interesting going forward — that there were other paths, but I didn't know about them. So I knew the Academy had the most pilot training slots. And I said, “OK, how do I get there? How do I get to the Academy?” You know, so you start reading and seeing things and it's good grades, you’ve got to be well rounded, and you’ve got to have leadership, sports, you’ve got to have all of these things. I'm like, “I don't know what this well-rounded thing means. But OK, good grades. I can do the good grades, I do good grades and try to figure out all the rest of the stuff.” I ended up joining Civil Air Patrol when I was in, I think, eighth grade. And that really just opened up a huge — it was really like a foot in the door for me because it was military-esque. You know, they're an auxiliary of the Air Force. So, you're wearing the uniform, you're doing the marching and lots of leadership opportunities. So, I actually ended up commanding the drill team and taking us to nationals and doing encampments up here at the Air Force Academy. So, we run the leadership reaction course before I even came here, you know, and it was that leg up that I needed for not having, you know, family, second generation, all that, it was the leg up that I really needed to crack the door and go, “OK, this is something that yeah, I could do this.” So, I got to have those leadership experiences. And I played sports. You know, all sorts of different sports. I did soccer and volleyball and ran track and ended up doing swimming so that I could pass basic swimming, those types of things. So it was really a well thought out chartered course, because I knew I wanted to go to the Academy. And I think that's something that I've tried to pass on to my kids is like, “You've got to have a plan for your life.” Like, “Yes, you can change course 100%. But you've got to have first vision, so that you can start working towards it and figure out what it's going to take.” I don't think that we spend enough time doing that sometimes. I think we plan our vacations really well. But I don't think we plan our lives really well.

Naviere Walkewicz 09:42

I was just gonna say that sounds like a really good leadership nugget right there. I mean, honestly, when did you realize you — have you always been a planner or was that something as a kid that you've, you knew about yourself or just developed about yourself?

Lt. Col. (Ret.) Rochelle Kimbrell 09:55

I would say that that was the first big plan that I created. And it was very intentional. The people that say, “Oh, I just, you know, showed up and I took a flight at the Academy and decided I wanted to go fly.” That's not how this worked for me. Like, I've been calling for this from day one. So yeah, absolutely.

Naviere Walkewicz 10:20

You had said something about in Civil Air Patrol, you were leading, you took your team to nationals. I would love to learn more about what that leadership journey was. And the reason I asked that is because sometimes our listeners think, you know, “What does leadership look like? And if I've not been involved in something, can I still get to a leadership position in it?” You know, and so it sounds like you took that on.

Lt. Col. (Ret.) Rochelle Kimbrell 10:40

So, I think as a young person, it's a little bit scary, because it's the first time that you're leading your peers, and trying to get people to do things that they don't necessarily want to do, because part of our competition was running. We played volleyball, and we drilled, you know, and it was voluntary, obviously, it's not, you know, to get in there and to go to the drill team. But it was really creating that camaraderie among the people that made them want to show up and want to show up at their best. And it was just kind of my first crack at getting to do that. And I think we were super successful in being able to create that environment that people wanted to be around where they got to be themselves and come out, and everybody had a strength and everybody had weaknesses, that we had to cover everybody, you know, and then we get to build them up. And you see that growth. And maybe at the time, I wouldn't say that I took that all in and knew what was, you know — that this is what was happening. But as I go back and dissect, I feel like that's where we got some of our successes is because the environment that we created was so fun, so welcoming, but we all were on a mission and we wanted to win. So, we had that vibe underneath that was driving us, but people could show up as themselves. So, it was pretty awesome.

Naviere Walkewicz 11:56

I see that strength in you. Just the theme that it's kind of running through everything you're talking about is, you know, kind of finding a way and I think bringing others along with you — sounds like that's kind of where we're headed. So I really like that. Maybe let's talk about when you got into the Academy. What was that experience like? Did you get the letter? How did you find out? And what were your first reactions?

Lt. Col. (Ret.) Rochelle Kimbrell 12:18

So, the only two places that I applied to were the Air Force Academy and the Naval Academy. My mom was like, “You should apply to MIT.” I don't know if they have a good pilot program, but they don't have the most pilot training slots.That was my plan and so I actually got accepted to the Naval Academy first, quite a while before I got accepted to the Air Force Academy. I ended up with a vice presidential nomination for the Academy for the Air Force Academy. And I waited. And I was really excited about the Naval Academy. I had been out to visit and it's a beautiful campus. And it would be super fun to go and learn how to crew and do things that I've never done. And I thought it'd be fun to do a summer on a boat. And I wanted to go away from home. So, it was really, yeah, it was really enticing to actually just say, “Yeah, I'm gonna go to the Naval Academy.” And then when I got that acceptance letter from the Air Force Academy, I was like, oh, OK, this is what it's always been about. And so I sat down and I made a list of where I wanted to go, and why I chose these two schools. And the Air Force Academy just came out with, this is what I was set out to do. These are the goals that I had, and this will fulfill all those goals. And that's probably what I should do, even though it's not away from home. And it's not, you know, and I was like, but that was the goal. So, I stepped foot in and it was awesome. I mean, it was everything that I thought it was gonna be, you know, a lot of people, not a lot, some people look back and wonder what they got themselves into when they show up here. And I knew exactly what I was getting myself into. I was excited about it. I had actually got to train with the PJs while I was in Civil Air Patrol. And that was way harder than basic training. So, when I showed up, I was like, “Oh, this is awesome.” People were like, “How do you know how to blouse your boots?” So, I'm like, “Because this was my plan.” I was like, “This was my plan all along.” And then you start asking people, “Why are you here?” Because you have all the different things right? There's other people that thought to be here and there's other people that showed up for they don't know why. And there's other people that were gonna just try it out. And so, you had the plethora, you had all of the… but I was one of those people. It's like this is where I have been fighting to get in from the time I was 14.

Naviere Walkewicz 14:49

Obviously it shows that hard work pays off. And you know, one of the other things that stood out to me, she's [Col. Kimbrell] wearing a red blazer because she is Red Class and I did want to acknowledge the fact that I noticed so, you're welcome.

Lt. Col. (Ret.) Rochelle Kimbrell 15:00

Awesome. Thank you. Dominate.

Naviere Walkewicz 15:03

So, you know, I am doing my part, you know, as a Gold Class, you know, just paying homage. So, let's talk about time at the Academy, and you said it was everything you'd hoped it to be.

Lt. Col. (Ret.) Rochelle Kimbrell 15:15

So it was, well, school was a little harder than I hoped it would be. The hope was that it would prepare me to go on to be a fighter pilot was the hope. And I think, you know, I just knew what I was getting myself into. So, there were no huge surprises, which I think was helpful as I walked through the journey. So, showing up doing basic — that was all well and good. The camaraderie that we built around that being, you know, Screaming Demons, and then, you know, going into the Killer Cobras. For my first two years, just a solid group of human beings. We had phenomenal upperclassmen, like, you know, just the greatest leadership team to teach us leadership and teach us exactly what I'm talking about. And that's probably where it solidified, was, you know, really working hard. You're working your tail off, but being part of something greater than yourself. And that was the first time I really learned about that piece of leadership, that it wasn't just about me going off to be a fighter pilot. But there's all this team building that has to happen in between. And that's kind of when that started to set in. And I think the Academy does that very well, in building teams and strong teams through challenge. So, I came in and, you know, did the things. It was a walk-on to the fencing team for a semester. And then I learned about falconry. And, you know, we only select four people from each class to be falconer just for their time here to take care of our mascots, to love them and just be amazing. And to go out and represent the school as well. And so, you know, my love of animals, it was perfect. And it was my kind of escape from when things did get crazy. I got to go down to the muse and play with the birds. And, you know, we brought our beloved Aurora here when she was just a little fledgling (with) fluffy feathers. So when I came back, 20 years later, she was still alive, and I got to see her and handle her. And it was awesome. So, I did that for my four years here, which afforded me lots of opportunities to go out and talk to high schools and do all kinds of different things. That's one thing I talked to people about, you know, going out and doing the hard things and getting in programs that are rigorous, make sure you have your outlet, make sure that you're taking care of yourself, whatever that looks like, you know, whether it's falconry or, whether it's you know, meditation or yoga, or whatever it is, make sure that you take that time to do that so that you can enjoy your experience, even though it's super challenging.

Naviere Walkewicz 17:51

One of the questions I think some of our listeners have is, you know, your time as a cadet. While a lot of things, you expect them to be challenging, to have an outlet and such, you know, maybe you can share an example where it was a challenge that you had to overcome something or you learned something about yourself having to go through an experience a challenge. Can you share maybe a setback or something that helped you grow as a leader?

Lt. Col. (Ret.) Rochelle Kimbrell 18:13

Definitely, I think, you know, failing or almost failing the class like that — that had never happened; it never occurred to me that it could happen. Um, you know, we all come in here, as you know, top rated top academics, you know, we've not always done things well. But we have surpassed many in our journey to get here. And I was always really good at math. It was something that I prided myself on being good at. And then I hit that Engineering Math 343 and it crushed my world. And so, I started out as an Engineering Mechanics major. And when that happened, they were like, “Well, you can take that again, or you can change your major.” And I was like, “I'll just change my major.” And that was kind of the first time that I had backed down from my plan. But I realized that there are many paths that could lead there. And so it was OK. And that everybody's gonna have a setback. So that was kind of the first big pill. I mean, not the first, but that's one that I definitely remember to this day that I had to swallow for myself. “Oh, I'm not gonna graduate with this degree that I thought I was gonna graduate with.” But it afforded more opportunities and different doors to open to find out, you know, that I really enjoyed doubly. So, I took a bunch of classes and so I got to branch out a little bit more than I would have been just being on the straight and narrow and not learning to pivot. And so, I think that was my first lesson in learning to pivot, which would suit me later on in my career for sure.

Naviere Walkewicz 19:55

Now that’s a great example. And I think that it's really, you know, good for people to hear that sometimes there are many ways we can get to an end goal. And just because the plan has to shift, that's absolutely OK. And that's life. Right? So, in the intro, we talked a bit about couldn't and shouldn't. So, let's kind of dive into that a little bit. Was that more after graduation? Would you say there were things even at the Academy that kind of followed that trajectory?

Lt. Col. (Ret.) Rochelle Kimbrell 20:23

I think that was all the way from the time I was little, you know, when I was a little Black girl growing up in Parker, people thought I couldn't and shouldn't do a lot of things. And that really, I think, even from a really young age, that really became the fuel to part of who I became. Going against the grain was my norm, like it became my norm as I was growing up. And, you know, for our military history buffs, you would know that women weren't even allowed to fly fighters until ’93. And I graduated high school in ’94. So, starting at 14, it was not just a, “You shouldn't” it was, “It's against the law.” Like, I would tell people I'm going to be a fighter pilot. And [they’d] say, “Well, you can't.” And I would tell them, I was like, “Well, I'm young.” So that's either gonna change, or I'm gonna change it. Like, those were my words that came out to people starting very young. And fortunately, I didn't have to change it, it changed right at the cusp — right in the nick of time, it changed. But it also came with a lot of challenges. You know, I remember being in pilot training and flying out across country, somewhere in the middle of nowhere, Texas, and crawling out of the T-38. And the guy at the gas station at the, you know, the [place] where we fill up our airplanes saying, “They let you fly that?” And I was like, “They let you talk?” That's what I said. And because I was spicy when I was younger, you know, sometimes it wasn't, you know, the most appropriate way. But standing up for yourself and knowing that you deserved as much of an opportunity as the next person to give it your best.

Naviere Walkewicz 22:11

I mean, there are so many lessons that we could just take from that just in general. I love that you said if there's not a way, I will find it or something to that… and you know, to that degree. Talk about that a little bit. So, when you went to pilot training, that path was afforded to you. But I'm sure it wasn't just like, “I want to be,” so it's done. Right? You had to work really hard. So talk about what some of that looked like, if you don't mind.

Lt. Col. (Ret.) Rochelle Kimbrell 22:36

Um, so pilot training, whew, that was a, you know, I was thinking in my mind I was prepared because I had my pilot's license, you know? I knew that I could take off and land. But that happens. And once you start, once you get over the simulator process, and the ground part process of pilot training, everybody catches up to you in about two weeks — everybody's taking off and landing, like that was nothing special. So that was eye opening. I was like, “Oh, OK, I thought I had a leg up.” You know, it was the pace of learning and growth of going through what pilot training takes you to and just the professional process of training is fascinating. Like, it's very fascinating. If you sat back and you watched what you can learn in a year, when focused solely on, you know, two airplanes, you know, one airplane for six months, one airplane for another six months, and just what you need to do. You learn a lot, and I had a lot to learn, and it was rigorous. And it really took a team effort as far as study groups, and just learning how to study and those people who had family members, and were legacy pilots and legacy fighter pilots were, you know, you need those people in your group to just kind of help you decipher what it is, or I needed those people in my group to help me decipher what it was that I was reading and studying. So it was awesome. I had a great group of guys and gals initially in my class. And then once I split off to [T-38s] from that point, for many years, I was the only woman in my squadron that was flying, or in my group.

Naviere Walkewicz 24:14

Well, can you talk about that a little bit, I think, you know, you said the only female. I was a “loggie,” so I was helping to load aircraft. And I did get, during ops Air Force, a ride in a F-16D model. So, I got to sit in the back seat. I'm like, “This is great.” But that was my extent beyond the soaring program at the Academy. So can you talk about what it's like being a female fighter pilot and some of the experiences that you had maybe that aren't glamorous that people don't know about, like maybe don't even know to ask or what that was like? I think it's, really unique for people to hear some of what had to be overcome so that things are now normal.

Lt. Col. (Ret.) Rochelle Kimbrell 24:51

I mean, I think it was a lot of little things that we had to, or though I'll just say that I'll just talk from my perspective. I won't speak for all the female fighter pilots out there because we are all walked very different paths. So, I think for me, it was a lot of little things that you had to deal with on a day-to-day that didn't allow me to show up at my best necessarily every day because I was focusing on the wrong things based on kind of the surroundings and what I was walking into. You know, I kind of think about it as some — this is a recent analogy that I've kind of come up with —it's kind of like, if you were out in public and you walked into the men's restroom, right. And that's where you were supposed to be, but you didn't feel like you were supposed to be there. Right? And so that was very similar to the initial walking into, you know, the T-38 is a little bit different because we started out, and I think I want to say, we actually had a large class of women going into my 993 team down at Laughlin. I think there were six of us. But then everybody went off — my roommate went off to helicopters, and then everybody else went “heavies.” And I was the only one that went fighters so you kind of had camaraderie with those guys initially. And so going into 38s was not as big of a deal. I think it was more showing up at Luke, and going through our fighter training unit there FTU, at Luke, where that's the first time you meet some other people and then every squadron subsequent to that. And I know for now, I do know, for many of us female fighter pilots, the gear was an issue. So just not having sizes that fit, not having good relief systems on the airplanes that women could use. So instead of focusing on things like tactics, and you know, where I need to be in formation, what our target is, and where I am on my target, you know, sometimes you can think about, like, I really gotta go to the bathroom and there's nothing I'm gonna be able to do about it for the next two hours, which doesn't make a good teammate. When you're a four-ship, and one person is not in the game fully, right, that is something that you absolutely need to be in the game fully 100 percent, 100 percent of the mission, 100 percent of the time. And I think that some of those basic needs not being met didn't afford me to be fully present when I needed to be at times. You know, and then that kind of goes hand in hand with, you know, potential leak-causing medical issues further down the road of, you know, not hydrating when you're flying jets, which is key, like you have to be hydrated to pull nine Gs. And I know, I flew not hydrated many times because I was concerned about other things. So those are some of the things that I think on the leading edge of, “Yeah, let's get women in the cockpit and the fighters,” you know, for a lot of reasons. That's a great idea. But we needed to think about it as a community kind of. What does that require, you know, what, what differences, you know, physiologically, whatever it is, does that require? And have we addressed that before we invite people into this space and say, “Yeah, go be a fighter pilot.” You know, we all managed and we figured it out. And, you know, that's the resiliency, that's the tenaciousness, that's the, “We're gonna do this, you know, come hell or high water. That's what we're gonna do.” And I think that was the mentality like, “I'm allowed to be here, I'm going to do my best to make the grade. I've done the things I'm, you know, I've made the grade and training, there's no reason that I shouldn't be able to go do this,” right? And then there's the reality of, here's a few things we need to tweak. And we're many years away from fixing those problems. Some of that has been arranged, and or some of that has been solved now, and some of it is still being worked on, you know. And I think we've come a long way in the realm of pregnancy and having babies and having kids in the fighter community. You know, it's kind of on the leading edge of that, too.

Naviere Walkewicz 29:16

You must be in my head. I was going to ask, you know, what it's like to be a fighter pilot and have children?

Lt. Col. (Ret.) Rochelle Kimbrell 29:23

So, and that's, you know, that's challenging. It was very challenging. And I think, being on the leading edge, the commander's didn't necessarily know what to do with you. I was at a non-flying assignment when we chose — I say chose — but I use that word loosely, because I had asked, you know, if I was on a non-flying assignment, which meant I would have to go to a transition course in order to go back to the jet. And so, I got married while I was at the non-flying assignment. And I asked, “If I went to the transition course and then subsequently decided to have a child, what would that look like?” And my commander said, “Well, we don't have to give you another transition course.” So essentially what that means to everybody who, you know, just to make it perfectly clear, your flying career would be over if I chose to have a child. So that was the thought process at the time by some, not all, because it was very commander-dependent. It was very, you know, they had the power, so we chose to have my son before I went to the transition course. And the rules at the time were that you were allowed to PCS, they were allowed to PCS you three months after you had a baby. Well, I had an emergency C-section. And three months after I had a baby, I couldn't do a sit up, they were ready to PCS me back-to-back to go pull nine Gs. And I was trying to explain that to the guy at the assignments. And he's like, “But the book says…” and I'm like, “I understand what the book says. However, we've got to think outside the box here a little bit. And I'm gonna need a little bit of an extension here before I can go the course. So, I can do a sit up, maybe stand up, maybe just do some basic things aside from pulling nine Gs.” And so, I think it was six to seven months after having my son I ended up at my course. And I was in Italy with a 9-month-old, going back to the jet, which was crazy. I'm not sure that it was sane at all. I mean, I don't know, for those people who've had babies, and you know what the first two years of life is like with the amount of sleep that you get. And it doesn't matter how phenomenal your spouse is, if you're the mom, you're the mom, and you’ve still got duties that you have to perform, whether it's you know, child’s hungry, there's only one person that can do something about that. So, it was interesting. And then, you know, the other part of that is support for your spouse, you know. We were one of the few people that had young kids showing up in Italy — he was the only guy and in the spouse's area, he had no support. With a 9-month-old in a foreign country, didn't speak the language. It was tough. It was challenging.

Naviere Walkewicz 32:20

That is. And so how did you I mean, aside from we just got through it, you know, what were some of the things that you might share with others? Look back. How were you able to so maybe others can think about what that looks like?

Lt. Col. (Ret.) Rochelle Kimbrell 32:36

We really did just get through it, right? We did, we leaned on each other, we, you know, went through some struggles there and, you know, I mean, I think, what I would tell people, you know, if they're thinking about whatever it is that you're going to actually go through in your life, right, and you're choosing a partner, you have understand each other's, you know, lives, and you have to be strong in your partnership to try and do something like this, you know, like, you'll talk to a lot of mil-to-mil families and the things that they've had to go through, and we weren't mil to mil, but you know, there's different things that you have to go through. So really having a partner that understands, and that you can figure things out and you're committed to each other even when it gets hard. I think, you know, because you can't necessarily always count on going into a new place and it being a certain kind of way. Right? You hope that you would have this type of support and that type of support. But having never seen the dynamic, they might not know how to have that type of support for you. So, it was a lot of opening new doors that people just kind of looked at us and didn't have any. We can't help you. We appreciate you.

Naviere Walkewicz 34:02

I think just sharing that because I think a lot of times, people don't, you know, really think about, you know, what does that look like and sometimes it just looks like you just take a step forward and you open up a door and you kind of, you know, assess and you go forward. And I think that there's something to be said about just moving forward. And it sounds like that's what you did really well. And through communication and everything as well. Maybe you can share, were there any leaders along the way that kind of supported you or inspired you to kind of get through some of the difficult times whether they're in that as a new mom or just in your career in general? What did that kind of look like from an inspirational standpoint?

Lt. Col. (Ret.) Rochelle Kimbrell 34:38

So, this was my struggle that I did not understand. And I really try to help young people and people up and coming and even people who are established in their careers, try to help them understand mentorship, because while we throw around the word “mentorship” a lot, we don't really talk about what does that really look like? And so along my career, I would hear “mentorship.” And I thought to myself, “I need to find another Black woman fighter pilot to help me figure out how to do this.” OK, well, when you are the first, there's nobody else out there to help you do that. And so I thought that I had to figure it out on my own and forge my own path, which made it harder for me. And part of that was self-imposed — 100 percent. But I didn't understand. So, as I got older in my career, and as I had, you know, gone through some trials and tribulations and I really sat down and I learned what mentorship was, I make sure that people understand three things about mentorship: You need to find somebody who sees you and the journey that you're on, and believes that you can do it. That's the first thing they need to be successful in wherever it is that you're trying to go. So, if I'm looking for a successful fighter pilot, they need to have been a successful fighter pilot. And that's what they need to be, right? I can't learn from a successful mechanic or a successful cook, or whatever. They need to be where you're trying to be successful. And then they need to be willing to take the time out of their own life to show you how to do it. Right? And if they're not those three things, then they're not a good mentor. But that doesn't mean they have to be the same color, creed, race, religion — none of that. That is not a factor. So, I was looking at all the wrong factors while looking for mentorship. And so, I really never had any solid mentors going through.

Naviere Walkewicz 36:38

When did you realize that and like, at what point did that kind of shift the way you look at things or the way you, you know, continue to pursue your professional — whether both in the uniform or outside the uniform — career?

Lt. Col. (Ret.) Rochelle Kimbrell 36:50

So, I realized that when I got around an outside organization that was not part of the military and I found true mentorship. And I think sometimes we're just in the military, we're very busy. And you have to pursue mentorship, right? It's not going to fall in your lap, it's not going to, you know, somebody may pass across your path and say, “I will mentor you if you want.” But if you don't pursue that, it's probably not going to happen, because that person is successful. They're busy, they're doing their thing. And you have to want their mentorship. And so, it wasn't until I was about to separate from active duty and go on to the Reserve that I started to understand what I had kind of missed. And I was like, “Oh, that's that mentorship thing that people have been talking about.” I mean, the word was around for the whole time. But the explanation and my understanding of it was not.

Naviere Walkewicz 37:55

What a good time for that to come, though. Yes. And when you're at that crossroads. So how many years active did you do? 13? OK. And that's interesting, because some people will say, “Once you get to 10, just stay in.” And so that was a big decision for you. What led you to that?

Lt. Col. (Ret.) Rochelle Kimbrell 38:12

So, it was looking around and saying, “You're 13 years, you have another seven years.” Seven years is a long time. And it's seven years of your life. And seven years of my life, like it's not just seven years, right? And so, I was looking at people 10 years ahead of me, and they were mostly airline pilots, or sim operators. I don't love the simulator. I don't want to operate the simulator, like, I mean, it has its place, its value, it's a valuable tool, but it was not my favorite place to be. So, I did not want to be a sim operator. And, you know, my joke to myself is that, you know, passengers on airlines don't like to go upside down. So, I don't think those are the planes I want to fly either, right? You know, they're, you know, a great career path, you know, but a lot of times as we transition, we look at the skill sets that we've learned. And that kind of easy-button is to just stay with the skill sets. We weren't because we spent, you know, a solid portion of our life, you know, 20 to 30 years learning that skill set. So that's what people would typically lean on. And being the outlier that I am, you know, a strange human being that I've come to be, you know, against the grain. That's not what I wanted to do. I wanted to have impact in other people's lives in a different way. And I was searching for something that I didn't necessarily know. And so, I was able to find it. So I was really excited about that, which really changed my whole trajectory of how I make decisions, why I make decisions. I really dissected things that I had done and what had made me successful in my career to a point, what was holding me back what had held me back from being, you know, from reaching the ranks, which is what some people would consider more success. And how do I want to live? You know, once you become a mom, in my opinion, your priorities change. It wasn't about me and my freedom and flying jets. And it's amazing, and it's awesome. And it's fun, and I love it. And living the fighter pilot life, it was, “I gotta build a life for these kids too,” you know, for my two boys, and I have to be a person that I need to be my boys’ hero. Right? So, the rest of the world, you know, they're wishy washy, take it or leave it, you know. Some people are gonna love you, some people are gonna hate you, that's fine. But I need to be my boys’ hero. I'm the only person that can be their mom in their life. And I needed to be that.

Naviere Walkewicz 41:05

I really appreciate that. I mean, I'm going back to something you said earlier about, everyone has an individual experience and it shapes them in different ways. And you can't say just because this person had this, others will have this. But I think what you just said really strikes home, because sometimes the biggest decisions we make really don't depend on others — it depends on where we are and what we want to do and who we want to be. So, who did you want to be, in addition to being there for your boys, like you want to be their hero? What did that translate to for you on the outside of military service?

Lt. Col. (Ret.) Rochelle Kimbrell 41:38

So that translated into, you know, being really a mentor. I wanted to have impact in other's lives. And I realized that sometimes that's going to translate individually to helping people individually. But when you really dive into people's lives — that they actually want mentorship, that actually want change — that's powerful. And that changes families. That changes generations. So I've been able to start working with people on that level.

Naviere Walkewicz 42:21

So it sounds like you made a pretty big leap from, you said, you went to the Reserve, so you had the ability to continue to serve and you know, and then retire in 2020. But you invested in yourself in an entrepreneurial way. And I'm sure there were trials and tribulations and that, in itself, right, because, you know, you have a message to share? And what was that journey like? And how do people who are thinking about something like that do it successfully from what you've learned?

Lt. Col. (Ret.) Rochelle Kimbrell 42:48

Yeah so I think, you know, really, it is learning your own self-worth. And then not allowing yourself to settle for anything less than that, knowing that you have value to add. And if you are not being treated that way, if you are not able to give your full self in the way that you want to, then maybe, you know, you have to look at it and say, “Is there a better way that I can use this one life that I was given?” And are there other people that need to hear your story, and so part of it was transitioning into speaking, because I learned that I had more value than just being a fighter pilot, right? I think that we are all normal people. And some people choose to do extraordinary things, right. But we're all just people. And anybody's capable of doing something extraordinary if they choose themselves. And so, I really had to unpack that in myself and say, I know when I talk to high schoolers, when I talk to young Black girls, when I talk to any minority, they get excited about possibilities for themselves. And there is value in helping people get excited about possibilities for themselves. Because they get out of their own way. They get out of listening to people who've told them that they only belong in a certain area, certain place, a certain socioeconomic class, whatever it is, and they see possibility. And for me, I knew if there was somebody in the world who could do that for my boys, and they would see a speaker wherever they would see somebody and it brought on possibility for them of what they could do in their life and they didn't do it I would be frustrated. It would be like you're not living your value right. And so, I thought that of myself, I'm like, “If I can show one person that they have more possibility and they have more value than they've ever known that they had and it causes them to act, that's it.” Like, that's why I’m here on this Earth…

Naviere Walkewicz 45:01

You're glowing because you're actually doing something you're so passionate about. I can tell that it really is to your core, you know, the part of your journey. It's wonderful to see when you have that ability to change someone's life, or it's more personal and it leads to, maybe, generational change. Can you share a story or maybe an example where you've had that happen with you and someone else?

Lt. Col. (Ret.) Rochelle Kimbrell 45:23

So, there's a young man out in Oregon, and his name is Jeremiah Stroupe. And he's one of my mentors. Absolutely. And he has really helped me walk this journey, and has really helped me find the value and be able to communicate it a little bit better. And he has helped my husband and I communicate better. He has helped us get our marriage back on track, he's just helped us get our finances and just understand, like our true value, outside of what people think, right. And I've never been a big, “I worry about what people think.” But we are all a little bit programmed by society, by media by, especially with social media now, but by those things, and you have a tendency to react in different ways to what you are bombarded with. And so he really helps me to walk that line to be better, and to impact more. Because he was able to help me get my life on track in transition, you know, like we were talking about as I was transitioning out of the military, because that's a hard time for people. And do you walk into a space where now you get to be the rest of you, if you weren't that before. Like some people don't have to do that transition. But I feel like walking through the time frame that we have walking through the fighter pilot world, I feel like I had to be a little bit of a chameleon and transform some of who I fully was to assimilate, as opposed to be completely accepted as myself. And so now I get to be me. And that took me years to remember who that was, who that's grown into. And to be able to see my whole self and then be able to value my whole self and then be able to give my whole self — I'm still working on it. It's still a work in progress. I'll work on it till the day I die. But I really had to take a step back. And I realized how much of myself I had put away to do the mission. And so, you know, as people are coming up and they're making these hard decisions — and I would do it again because it's what I wanted to do. I wanted to fly jets, I did fly jets, it was amazing. I've crossed paths with some amazing wingmen, flight leads, leaders, leadership, you know, yeah, there's the people that you know, that you don't get along with. But all in all, it's been an amazing journey. But the walk back to self was a little bit shocking to me, as I kind of unpacked and moved on to the next phase. But it's been really freeing, too. So, it's been awesome.

Naviere Walkewicz 48:33

I feel like time has flown by; there's so many good things we covered. Was there anything that I didn't ask you that you wanted to share with our listeners?

Lt. Col. (Ret.) Rochelle Kimbrell 48:42

No, we did cover a lot of things. I mean, I think I really love to share that mentorship piece, because I think it's important for people to know that your mentors don't have to look like you, don't have to be like you. In fact, it's better if they're not.

Naviere Walkewicz 48:55

I think that's a great message. I really do. And I think that really opens up — I mean, then it's almost like the whole world is your oyster. Really, you know what I mean? And so, I think that's a beautiful thing. Well, what we'd like to do is we'd like to share with our listeners key lessons they can take away around leadership. And I think we've heard some along the way, but if you had to boil it down, and they're thinking about Col. Kimbrell, Rochelle, what are some of the things you want to leave our listeners with when it comes to leadership?

Lt. Col. (Ret.) Rochelle Kimbrell 49:21

I would just leave you with: Dare to dream, right? Because what you have in your heart is not necessarily what people are going to see you for, see you as. But it's OK. So dare to have that boldness about yourself, to dream what you want to dream about yourself and then to go after it. And there are going to be obstacles, understand there's going to be obstacles, there's going to be failures. You don't grow unless you fail. And you have to learn how to walk through those but you have to learn from your failures in order to grow from them. And don't be afraid of that. So, I just challenge people to dare to dream — it doesn't matter if you're 10 or if you're 80, there's still more life in you, you can still have another dream, and you can still go after it. And that's really my biggest challenge is a lot of ways to get to places. And I would say, plan your life. Take the time, like you would a 10-day vacation to figure out how you're going to get there. Where do you want to go? And how are you going to get there? And who do you want to take with you?

Naviere Walkewicz 50:36

Thank you. So, may I just ask, what's your dream today?

Lt. Col. (Ret.) Rochelle Kimbrell 50:41

My dream today is just to be impactful. I want to impact people's lives. I want to empower people to be their best selves. I want to raise good citizens with my two boys. And I want to live free.

Naviere Walkewicz 51:00

Well, I think you're on your way because you inspired me today. So thank you for that.

Lt. Col. (Ret.) Rochelle Kimbrell 51:03

Thank you. Good to be here. Appreciate your time.

Naviere Walkewicz 51:06

Definitely. Thank you.

KEYWORDS

fighter pilot, Air Force Academy, childhood, dreams, challenges, perseverance, role model, female fighter pilot, camaraderie, gear, facilities, motherhood, mentorship, transition, speaking, mentoring

The Long Blue Line Podcast Network is presented by the U.S. Air Force Academy Association and Foundation